Losing to B team.

[Bluevelvet]

There are some issues involved with UCSD's loss to USD.
1. The B division is not a developmental league. Some of those teams are very good. And will never "move up".
2. Laxpower has USD at 79.5. Just below Colorado and above Utah who both pulled off upsets this week.
3. If UCSD drops alot by losing to #1 USD, will any contending A team ever play a B team again?
4. Aren't we dissing the whole B division by calling USD "unranked"?
5. Watching the championship in MN last year I was impressed with several B teams. USD and UVSC were better than half of the A teams there.
6. This year St John, St. Thomas, UVSC, USD, Claremont and others are playing great lacrosse. How would they do against A teams from their own conference?

Any thoughts?

[DanGenck]

This has bothered me since the A/B split. Now that some B Division teams are becoming good programs, there is less incentive for Division A teams to play down because it is no longer a guaranteed victory. I would not be surprised if most Division A teams begin shying away from B Division competition.

If I were an A Division coach, I certainly would.

[Jolly Roger]

6. This year St John, St. Thomas, UVSC, USD, Claremont and others are playing great lacrosse. How would they do against A teams from their own conference?

Any thoughts?

#3B St John's (a team that defeated USD) lost handily to UMD - a team many do not consider among the elite in A Division.

#5B St Thomas lost to unranked Minnesota ( a .500 A team with no wins against top 25 competition).

The USD game is a HUGE loss for UCSD

Would losing to #1 DIII Salsbury be a bad loss for #5 DI Cornell? I think so.

[Rob Graff]

Some results from the UMLL.

UMD 11 SJU 3

SJU beat USD and lost to Claremont by one. They also beat St. Cloud State (an A team in the UMLL). The also beat UST by 1.


UofM 10 UST 5.

UST beat Calvin, Dordt, Creighton and Harding.

[x1dschm]

Does anyone know what keeps a Division B team from jumping up to Division A? Is it rules and regulation or personal choice?

My personal thoughts...

It should be looked upon as a major accomplishment if a Div. B Team upsets a Div. A Team ranked in the top 10 (let alone the Top 5). And no offense to Div. B, but losing to a Div. B Team if you are ranked in the Top 10 of Div A. is a huge loss.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[Danny Hogan]

we may get to the point where inter-divisional games might have to be looked at similarly to NCAA games. Not counted because of lack of consistent competition to compare to.


i would compare it more to #5 D3 cortland st losing to #1 D2 lemoyne.

lemoyne certainly wouldn't be considered 'unranked' but it would definatley affect people's perception of cortland.

[grinderpete]

I have seen several top Div B teams play this year, and if they are comparable to USD, then USD shouldn't beat a top 10 A team. I also saw 3 of USD's games last year, and they would have been knocked out in the first round of the A tourney by all but the AQ's.

[sohotrightnow]

USD's loss to St. John's was at the beginning of the season. USD's play has improved dramatically over the course of the season.

[Rob Graff]

USD's loss to St. John's was at the beginning of the season. USD's play has improved dramatically over the course of the season.

I won't disagree - but cannot the same be said of all teams as the season progresses? That they all improve dramatically?

Or are you positing different rates of improvement for different teams?

[DanGenck]

I think some B Division teams are embracing the B Division as exactly how it was pitched- A seperate division for smaller schools to be competitive. St. John's has no incentive to move up to Division A because St. John's is not a big school... DIII at sports translates well into Division B success in the USL-MDIA (in my opinion).

[Kyle Berggren]

Is 20K a small school? The split is still by choice, and by Division 1A football, not by school size. In the PNCLL B, we have at least 7 schools under 4K in the B, 2 of those around a thousand, most about 3K. That's enrollment off the top of my head, playing in the same division as state schools with 8K+ students. I just point this out because size wasn't the split even if we do think of it that way. I am one that does think of it that way, and I am embracing the fact that we have 2700 students to field a team. I'm glad we don't have to compete against the CSU's & Oregon's of the world on a weekly basis.

As far as USD big win for them, I do see it as a small black eye for UCSD. Is it terrible? No, but you can't overlook it. Is there incentive to schedule a B game for the A's? only extra playing time, it won't help them get to nationals otherwise. I guess I ask myself, what are the goals of my team? How does a B game help my team get there?

[3rdPersonPlural]

It may make sense to set up the A and B leagues to realign yearly, as per the model of the English Premier Soccer leagues.

Every year, the top 5 or 10 B teams move up to A, and the bottom 5 or 10 A teams drop down to B.

The apparent objection would be that a playoff contender from B condemns themselves to be an also-ran in A. This could be partially addressed by expanding the pool of pyayoff eligible A teams and shrinking the pool of B teams that go to the playoffs, but There will still be inequities - perceived and otherwise.

[Timbalaned]

6. This year St John, St. Thomas, UVSC, USD, Claremont and others are playing great lacrosse. How would they do against A teams from their own conference?

Any thoughts?

#3B St John's (a team that defeated USD) lost handily to UMD - a team many do not consider among the elite in A Division.

#5B St Thomas lost to unranked Minnesota ( a .500 A team with no wins against top 25 competition).

The USD game is a HUGE loss for UCSD

Would losing to #1 DIII Salsbury be a bad loss for #5 DI Cornell? I think so.

Going to have to agree, and UVSC is a good team and are great guys, but we beat them 14-0. There is a big difference in the divisions...

[Maple Leaf]

USD's loss to St. John's was at the beginning of the season. USD's play has improved dramatically over the course of the season.

I won't disagree - but cannot the same be said of all teams as the season progresses? That they all improve dramatically?

Or are you positing different rates of improvement for different teams?

i would say that usd just played a bad game... as you can see in the A division, that happens quite a bit. No disrespect to st. johns, but if they played again i think usd would win that game by 5-6 goals.... in fact usd was winning by 4 goals late in the game and then fell asleep at the wheel. I would argue that their game against ucsd is more indicative of their actual level of play... and this can be seen by looking at the last 3 times they have played ucsd... it was no fluke

2006 - usd 10- ucsd 9
2005 - usd 5 - ucsd 8
2004 - usd 10 - ucsd 12

they have been competitive the last 3 years, so while usd might not beat ucsd again if they played, they are consistently in the ballpark,and when teams that are closely matched play, either team has a chance... that is why we play the games.

can't speak to the level of talent of uvsc, but for anyone who has seen usd play this year they know it is no fluke... they beat usc 15-3, which is a greater margin than ucsb and cal poly.

the fact is that div A teams don't want to schedule high ranked div B teams.... they have nothing to gain. if they win... well they were supposed to win... if by chance they lose, they are in the predicament that ucsd is in.... everyone thinking it is a huge upset. it will be interesting to see if ucsd schedules usd next year.

[sohotrightnow]

Yes, I believe some teams do dramatically improve over the course of the year. I think it is safe to say that BYU has been known for being vastly superior towards the end of the year than at the beginning. I think another obvious case for this is Utah. I mean, they were blown out by Chapman and they lost to Chico. I think most people believe that Utah is better than both teams, but those games were Utah's first games of the year, and as we can see by their win over Sonoma, they have improved their play greatly.