graduate student eligibility

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Postby wheelz33 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:14 pm

Jolly Roger wrote:Because most teams, conferences and the MCLA Board do not have the resources necessary to provide the amount of oversight necessary to follow the rules exactly.


speaking of, how does a team/conference even ensure that a player hasnt used up all their eligibility in undergrad? say bob played 4 years in rmlc, and decides to get warm and go the selc for grad school. he misses playing, goes out for the team and doesnt say he played before. how is this caught? itd seem easy for someone to miss, especially for someone with a common name.

and also, sorry if i missed this. if its a grad students last semester of school, does he still need the 12 credits? or is it similar to undergrad?
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Postby Gvlax on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:23 pm

wheelz33 wrote:
Jolly Roger wrote:Because most teams, conferences and the MCLA Board do not have the resources necessary to provide the amount of oversight necessary to follow the rules exactly.


speaking of, how does a team/conference even ensure that a player hasnt used up all their eligibility in undergrad? say bob played 4 years in rmlc, and decides to get warm and go the selc for grad school. he misses playing, goes out for the team and doesnt say he played before. how is this caught? itd seem easy for someone to miss, especially for someone with a common name.

and also, sorry if i missed this. if its a grad students last semester of school, does he still need the 12 credits? or is it similar to undergrad?


Always wondered this myself. Good question. Hopefully someone will contribute... maybe JP or Sharp
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Postby Danny Hogan on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:25 pm

NYBuilt wrote:
John Paul wrote:Graduate students have always been allowed in the MCLA. The change this year enabled them to play for a school where they did not receive their undergrad degree (assuming eligibility remaining and 12 credit hours).


It seems like it is heading in the right direction. If the MCLA is pushing so hard to be known as virtual varsity and not as bush league club lacrosse then why aren't the NCAA rules followed to the T?


how do u figure they are not?
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Postby John Paul on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:41 pm

Every player is tracked through the MCLA website database. All records are saved. If someone appeared on an active roster, we have a record of it. Of course, if a question is ever raised we will also investigate.

As for following NCAA rules - we follow the rules of play to the letter. We do not follow all of the other NCAA rules (eligibility, recruiting, oversight, practice days, limits on # of contests, # of coaches, etc.). Some of those rules simply don't apply to us, and many are so complex that they need a huge, bureaucratic organization to track them and enforce them (the NCAA). We don't have those resources. Some would argue we're better for it.

We have our own definitions of the rules that apply to us (eligibility is a good example). They are very similar to NCAA rules, usually more closely aligned with D3 than D1 or D2. In some cases they are looser and in some they are stricter.
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Postby Gvlax on Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:44 pm

John Paul wrote:Every player is tracked through the MCLA website database. All records are saved. If someone appeared on an active roster, we have a record of it. Of course, if a question is ever raised we will also investigate.

As for following NCAA rules - we follow the rules of play to the letter. We do not follow all of the other NCAA rules (eligibility, recruiting, oversight, practice days, limits on # of contests, # of coaches, etc.). Some of those rules simply don't apply to us, and many are so complex that they need a huge, bureaucratic organization to track them and enforce them (the NCAA). We don't have those resources. Some would argue we're better for it.

We have our own definitions of the rules that apply to us (eligibility is a good example). They are very similar to NCAA rules, usually more closely aligned with D3 than D1 or D2. In some cases they are looser and in some they are stricter.


Do you keep track on how many years people play? by their name is there a quantity amount?
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Postby WCLLPREZ on Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:15 pm

This why the WCLL has a more strignent rule on grad students. Other than those who have at MCLA schools, there really is no way to determine how much or where eligibility has been used
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Postby Andy Joly on Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:51 am

So if any of us talk to a grad student that wants to play lax, do we tell them that they have to take 24 credits a year or can they take 6 hours in the fall and 12 in the Spring?
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Postby NYBuilt on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:59 pm

John Paul wrote:Every player is tracked through the MCLA website database. All records are saved. If someone appeared on an active roster, we have a record of it. Of course, if a question is ever raised we will also investigate.

As for following NCAA rules - we follow the rules of play to the letter. We do not follow all of the other NCAA rules (eligibility, recruiting, oversight, practice days, limits on # of contests, # of coaches, etc.). Some of those rules simply don't apply to us, and many are so complex that they need a huge, bureaucratic organization to track them and enforce them (the NCAA). We don't have those resources. Some would argue we're better for it.

We have our own definitions of the rules that apply to us (eligibility is a good example). They are very similar to NCAA rules, usually more closely aligned with D3 than D1 or D2. In some cases they are looser and in some they are stricter.


So why is it that the grad student eligibility rules need altering to apply to the MCLA if the player can be tracked. Why is 12 hours needed when full time students and the NCAA require 9 hours for a grad student? Just trying to understand the logic JP, not trying to be argumentative....
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Postby John Paul on Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:14 pm

You have an ally there. I don't agree with our rule to require 12 credit hours for grad students. The majority of the BOD does, however.
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Postby buffalowill on Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:23 pm

Timaballeneed:
He was ruled ineligible by the WCLL. Despite the fact that he played on the Villanova Club Team (they participate (d?) in the NCLL). The "non-NCAA school" rule still applies to students that did not play on the NCAA-sanctioned school team. I don't agree with it, but I do understand where they are coming from.
I hope that all eligibility issues including medical hardship waivers, etc are governed by uniform rules for the entire MCLA.
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Postby NYBuilt on Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:48 pm

John Paul wrote:You have an ally there. I don't agree with our rule to require 12 credit hours for grad students. The majority of the BOD does, however.


Surely you have some insight as to why the BOD would require 12 hours for graduate students...What were their arguments/reasons?
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Postby beckner11 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:56 pm

Andy Joly wrote:So if any of us talk to a grad student that wants to play lax, do we tell them that they have to take 24 credits a year or can they take 6 hours in the fall and 12 in the Spring?


In the GRLC there is no monitoring of fall ball so it would be whatever they want to take in the fall and 12 in the spring.
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Postby John Paul on Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:56 pm

NYBuilt wrote:
John Paul wrote:You have an ally there. I don't agree with our rule to require 12 credit hours for grad students. The majority of the BOD does, however.


Surely you have some insight as to why the BOD would require 12 hours for graduate students...What were their arguments/reasons?


I don't really. One argument is that it simply makes things easier to track. I think the reality is that some on the board don't want to see grad students at all, and when some others finally talked them into allowing grad students to play for a school where they didn't graduate from undergrad, they held fast on the 12 credit hour rule as a from of compromise. I hope it will eventually change.
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Postby Andy Joly on Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:37 am

How do rules and regulations like these change?
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Postby John Paul on Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:26 pm

Majority vote of the Board of Directors. Next meeting is August.
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