Big Ten Tournament/U of Wisconsin discussion

[cbrockman9]

I thought this whole conversation started because MSU claimed conspiracy.
Whomever said i could play lacrosse with a midwest men's club lacrosse team to prolong my lax playing days is wrong. In my mind playing with Mad Cow is not an option. No offense to anyone. Furthermore, the UW men's team provided me with more competition (which everyone keeps preaching about -- ironic isnt it?). Additionally, why would i coach or ref when I could play? I have coached lacrosse at a New England prep school and I have coached high school and club soccer in New York, New England and Madison, so don't start preaching to me about the benefits of sports, competition, blah, blah, blah.

By the way, we beat MSU without our two grad school players.

As I said before, the undergrads -- who have significant lax experience -- knew what they were getting into and love the camaraderie.

Do I get annoyed when we play cruddy teams, of course, who wouldn't? But it's nice to beat teams like MSU who think they are a NCAA team.

Virtual Varsity is just that. virtual. it's not real. it's club.

Virtual Varsity folks, you are kidding if you think what you do compares to even the worst div. III teams.

Once again: Get a clue

[John Paul]

Wisclax,
Just to play devil's advocate, if the team voted on this issue, there must have been someone pushing that vote yes? That would indicate to me, using my incredible powers of deduction, that not everyone is completely satisfied. I'm sure most of the guys on the current team are perfectly happy, by and large, with the status quo. I'm also fairly certain, from an outside perspective with a lot of experience in this area, there are guys on the team who would love a more competitive environment. As I said before, I'm completely certain there are guys on campus who don't play because it's not serious enough for them.

When I was a player, way before there was any MDIA to model after - when all there was in our region of the country was traditional club lacrosse - a few of the players who led the team made a decision on their own (I was one of them) to take the team in a more serious direction. I can gaurantee that if we'd had a vote, the team would have voted us down. Except for a couple of years where really big leaps were made, the changes we envisioned happened gradually and are still happening today. What's interesting is that many of our most supportive alumni are guys who played for those early teams, many of whom probably would have voted against change when they were here. They are intensly proud of what we are now. I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I wish it was like this when I played." or "I probably wouldn't have made a team like this, but I love what you're doing."

I've made my position on this clear. I'm not out to chastise Wisconsin lacrosse or push anyone to change their team. I can, however, give advice for anyone looking for it.

CBrockman,
You've either never seen top MDIA lacrosse (not just how it's played, but also how it's run) or you've never seen the worst of D3 (or more likely, you're just trying to push buttons). You're right that there's no comparison though.

[Bluevelvet]

Virtual Varsity folks, you are kidding if you think what you do compares to even the worst div. III teams. Once again: Get a clue

A truly ignorant statement. If you think the worst D3 teams can beat, UCSB, or CSU or Sonoma St. you must have been asleep for the last 10 years. .
Not only did CSU and Sonoma easily beat D3 Colorado College last year but UCSB and Sonoma handed NDNU (#9 laxpower D2) 2 of their 3 losses. UCSB handled them 14-5. BYU beat then top 10 Whittier in 2004.
UCSB beat mediocre MIT so badly year after year that MIT finally stopped playing them in 2005.
Hopefully there will be more competiton between the MDIA and NCAA D2 and D3 in future, but I doubt it. The varsity teams have too much to lose.
If you think that MSU is the best that the MDIA has to offer you are even dumber than you sound.
Your opinions are clear but I'm afraid they are based on a shocking lack of knowledge.

[mholtz]

If you think that MSU is the best that the MDIA has to offer you are even dumber than you sound.

Hey... watch it.

But seriously, we don't believe we are varsity. We don't think we are even a top MDIA team. We finished 4th in our conference last year. If we thought that, we'd be ignorant.

We try to make the best possible experience for everyone involved in our program.

I can personally attest to 4 players on my team this year that thought as late as last year that we weren't serious enough, and almost didn't play for us this year.

I also know of 3 HS all americans that go to MSU that have no desire to play for us because they came from D1 varsitys are are "burnt out" and can't make that kind of commitment.

I honestly never meant to imply that there was a conspiracy. I don't think that me saying that I felt a call was controversial is me saying there is a conspiracy against us.

I think there is a place for all levels of Lacrosse. I also think that if MSU ever wants to be a "top" MDIA team we have a lot of work to do.

I have a coach on my squad who coached at Mount Ida college (a D3 school) last year who said that every one of the players we kept this year would have made his team back at Mt. Ida.

I have personally coached in a 10-5 victory where MSU beat a D3 school. It wasn't a good D3 school, but it was an NCAA school. It was a years ago. I'll have to go back and find the book to remember who it was.

The growth of College lacrosse at the varsity level is seriously stunted by budgetary and title 9 concerns. The MDIA hopes to provide as close to that experience as possible.

And yes, Wisconsin did beat us, two grad students or not.

[licap96]

You folks are so rediculous. Heres what you guys in MDIAA (or watever those initials are) fail to grasp: We at Wisconsin practice 2 times a week, never run sprints, never have curfew, and we drink lots of beer. This of course creates an amazingly fun atmosphere. Yet the most fun part of it all is playing competitive games with/beating you teams who think your all that, pretending your something your not.

Sure there are exceptions such as BYU, UCSB, Michigan and CSU. But look at these schools: BYU is dry (booo), UCSB and CSU are inferior academically, and I sure as hell aint gonna want to play at a school (michigan) where the coach comes onto some blog complaining about another program. Plus we beat them in football (ooo down goes henne!!). Not to mention all these programs are too serious for what they are. I was at the lacrosse championships in Philly this year and I watched a DI, DII, and DIII championship game. But for some reason I can't recall the club championship game...hmmm...go figure. In summation, I ask where else one can recieve this good an education, have this much free time while having a good, fun lacrosse team, and being allowed to beer bong 30 beers on a Saturday (yup i did it but i cant remember how many, coulda been 25). Peace

P.S. Stop talking about hal....hes classy and no matter who you are, hes way cooler than you

[Bluevelvet]

You folks are so rediculous. ..
Sure there are exceptions such as BYU, UCSB, Michigan and CSU. But look at these schools: BYU is dry (booo), UCSB and CSU are inferior academically,

Maybe if you drank less beer you would have learned how to spell "ridiculous" at Wisconsin.
Maybe if you paid attention to the real world you would know that UCSB is not only the #12 ranked public school in the country according US News and World Report, but is also on the beach and is ranked in the top 10 party schools as well.
Wisconsin is a fine school (#8 USN&WR) but it has nothing on the UC schools. Note that of the top 12, the only school that is not MDIA or NCAA in lacrosse is Wisconsin.
Here is the list:
Top Public National Universities

1. University of California–Berkeley
2. University of Virginia
3. Univ. of California–Los Angeles
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
6. College of William and Mary (VA)
7. Univ. of California–San Diego
8. Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison
9. Georgia Institute of Technology
10. University of California–Irvine
11. U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
12. Univ. of California–Santa Barbara
University of Washington

Please note my point: that UCSB and Wisc. are ranked generally the same (#12 & #8).
Please note my second point that all of the top 12 have either NCAA lacrosse or MDIA lacrosse except Wisconsin.

[Sonny]

Whomever said i could play lacrosse with a midwest men's club lacrosse team to prolong my lax playing days is wrong. In my mind playing with Mad Cow is not an option.

I said it. Please explain to me how playing for another Madison or Milwaukee based men's club like Mad Cow isn't an option to prolong your lacrosse playing days. I'd like to know how I'm wrong on this issue.

Additionally, why would i coach or ref when I could play?

Umm... Maybe to give back to the sport that is growing leaps and bounds all over the country. No one has said you can't or shouldn't continue to play. It just might not be at the UW. No offense cbrockman9, but it ain't always about you.

But it's nice to beat teams like MSU who think they are a NCAA team.

I don't see anyone claiming that MSU is a NCAA team. Care to provide a source to back up that allegation?

You've either never seen top MDIA lacrosse (not just how it's played, but also how it's run) or you've never seen the worst of D3 (or more likely, you're just trying to push buttons). You're right that there's no comparison though.

Truer words have never been spoken on this message board.

[Jay Wisnieski]

I can't keep reading this garbage...I just can't.

BYU is dry (booo)

being allowed to beer bong 30 beers on a Saturday (yup i did it but i cant remember how many, coulda been 25).

and I sure as hell aint gonna want to play at a school (michigan) where the coach comes onto some blog complaining about another program.

If you're not going to talk about lacrosse, and the merits of traditional club vs. virtual varsity, but instead, you post ignorant garbage like what I've quoted above, why are you wasting our time? You attack a school for being dry because they're just following their religious beliefs, you brag about your drinking ability as if anyone gives a crap about you or how much you can drink, and you accuse the Michigan coach, John Paul, of complaining about another program on our forums. In defense of Coach Paul:

I've made my position on this clear. I'm not out to chastise Wisconsin lacrosse or push anyone to change their team.

I've always been content to let Wisconsin do their thing while we do ours.

If I may interject here - who cares? Wisconsin (and Northwestern) have chosen to play at a different, more traditional, club level of the game. That's up to them, and I don't think we have any place to be critical of that. Do I wish they'd suddenly "see the light" and find the desire to play at a more organized level? Sure. Does it effect me if they don't? Nope. Not as long as I don't play them. Let them do their thing and give them respect for playing the game, no matter how different (or similar) it is to our style. If you choose to play them, understand that there will be differences, and you may not like all of those - but you have to accept them. If those differences make you nervous, don't schedule them. Simple.

When exactly did he complain about another program, or specifically, yours?

I'll end my post with this:

I never played MDIA lacrosse. When I played, we were still a club team like Wisconsin's. I enjoyed my time playing, and we had a lot of fun. I do, however, wish I wouldn't've graduated so soon so I could have played in the MDIA. There are pros and cons to both sides of the argument, but what some people that have posted on all 6 pages of this discussion need to realize is that just because someone doesn't share your opinion, or your preferred method of playing lacrosse, it doesn't make them wrong.

Also, I apologize for the length of this post.

[MandibleS4L]

I remember playing the Wisconsin guys two years in a row at the Mardi Grad tourney. It was a great group, had a lot of fun, and didn't mind getting waxed on the field by our squad. They enjoyed themselves a bunch, drank a lot of beer, and wallowed through the streets of New Orleans like a good boy should. If that is the way they like it- loose, fun, and competitive when convenient- so be it. More power to them. Surely the MDIA is not for all, though I would hate for it to be denied to UWisc students should they so desire. That, however, is something that must be homegrown from Madison.

[licap96]

Blue Velvet,

Maybe if you would stop being the most ignorant fool on this site you would notice that your own rankings show that UW-Madison is ranked higher academically and in the party school rankings, which if i do recall was my point. Do you have a point to anything you post? Please stop wasting my time. And who uses mistypes as a comeback? "Thats bush....bush league"

[lil lady lax fan]

licap96,
I pity you if the be-all and end-all of your lacrosse experience is defined by how much alcohol you consume before/during/after a game, and how big you can boost your ego by belittling programs who are trying to give their players a more competitive experience than what your type of program has to offer. They know it's not varsity, they just want something a little closer to that than your average club team has to offer. The players on these teams also do their fair share of partying so I don't think they're missing out on that particular college experience.

I suggest you go back and actually READ the other posts before opening your mouth. In the case of Blue Velvet, he was pointing out that the UC schools in general were noted for their academic excellence. #12 isn't that far below #8, so I don't think they'd be considered 'academically inferior' in most people's books. Not by a long stretch. You do more damage for both your school and your program's reputation by posting the things you've written.


Oh, and for the record, Hal may be a classy guy, but you sure as heck have a long way to go in the character department. The players on these teams are way out of your league when it comes to good sportsmanship. I suggest you take some classes in that department while you're at school. My ten year old has a better grasp of the concept than you do.

[LaxRef]

I suggest you go back and actually READ the other posts before opening your mouth. In the case of Blue Velvet, he was pointing out that the UC schools in general were noted for their academic excellence. #12 isn't that far below #8, so I don't think they'd be considered 'academically inferior' in most people's books.

Plus, people are acting like these rankings have any validity. Is there anyone who really believes that there's an objective ranking of which school is number one academically or in "partying"? These things are inherently subjective, and while you might be able to get almost everyone to agree that Harvard is better than, say, Wayne State academically, you'll never get everyone to agree which school is the best because people have different objective functions.

[CSmizzle]

Um, when I was defending Wisconsin's right to determine their own club goals, I didn't expect to be speaking about the buffoonery that we've seen in subsequent pages. What a waste of a lacrosse club.

Whether virtual varsity or something less intense is a decision for the club to make. However, I don't support any university-sponsored club that places its drinking goals above their lacrosse club. That is truly a waste.

Oh, and Wisconsin is #8 because they have excellent research and graduate programs. Their undergraduate program is just along for the ride.

[LaxDude]

Can we ever hope to see a MDIA play any D3 teams like Salisbury, Nazareth, or Middlebury? Heck, what about an MDIA team playing against a D1 opponent like UPenn, Ohio State, or Delaware as an early regular season match-up.

[cjwilhelmi]

Can we ever hope to see a MDIA play any D3 teams like Salisbury, Nazareth, or Middlebury? Heck, what about an MDIA team playing against a D1 opponent like UPenn, Ohio State, or Delaware as an early regular season match-up.

I believe Michigan, BYU and UCSB have scrimmaged some of these teams in the past.