next NCAA D1 ACC team?

[Vols2]

Finally putting my UT education to use...

This is not commonly known but each University must be in compliance with 2 out of 3 elements for Title IX.

1) Proportionality (must commonly thought of with Title IX)

2) History of Progress (being able to show that progress is made with women's athletics in terms of growth)

3) Need based (don't remember the title used to describe this but in essence if there is an overwhelming demand for say a Women's Crew team, the University would go after providing one)

[KnoxVegas]

UT educations represent!

Ken summed up what many of us already said.

[John Westfall]

I believe that something with Title 9 and the NCAA will result in the increase of NCAA Lacrosse Programs from Coast to Coast in my lifetime. But the expansion of the ACC is at least 15-20 Years away. Florida State may have a shot in a sooner time frame but again I believe it is 15-20 years away.

Something in the Title 9 Law and NCAA Football has to change to expand the sport of Lacrosse nationwide on the College level. With the sport growing on the youth and high School level it is only a matter of time but I believe it is still some time off. When it does happen the SEC and ACC will have some great Lacrosse teams.

All the best,

[davewiley]

I'll loudly second Ken's comments. I get the varsity question a lot too, and often from parents of a player from a decent (but not outstanding) high school program. With only a dozen-ish scholarships to go around at each D1 school, do they realize how unrealistic it is to bring an athletic scholarship into their financial aid planning? A half-ride at Duke is still going to break the bank.

We dropped two men's sports a few years ago (Tennis and Swimming) to get a pretty good proportional balance between genders, so the "what are you doing to make lacrosse a varsity sport at your school?" gets old pretty quickly. The thing that really hit home when the two sports were axed was how much money was getting thrown at our "non-revenue" sports, huge sums! The IA level gives a MUCH better return on investment for the student-athletes IA serves. That said, I wouldn't gripe if we could skip all of our fundraising!

[DanGenck]

I don't know, guys... club varsity is fantastic, but I cannot help but wonder how high my GPA would have been if I had not done 30 hours of extra work each week outside of school for 3 years. Seems like a big strain to put on college students who need to focus on their studies... just my gut feeling, that's all.

[Ken Lovic]

might want to ask some Div I athletes about their extra 30 hours they spend on other things related to lacrosse and playing at that level. I think a lot of it is not as life preparing as many duties you got to experience- good and bad.
Also important- look to your team to help in team duties, amazing what a group can get down over a few individuals. Assign committees

[Hugh Nunn]

might want to ask some Div I athletes about their extra 30 hours they spend on other things related to lacrosse and playing at that level.

Exactly. My brother was recruited by, and made the team for Syracuse in '91. He was only there for one year, and eventually transferred to a D3 school due to the "every waking moment" aspect of the Lacrosse program. He has been reluctant to stay active in the sport since then, and I often wonder when we discuss it, what the outcome would have been if he had had the opportunity to play at this level. Obviously there are no givens, and it's possible that the result would have been the same. It's just tough to see someone who loved the game as much as he did to be absolutely divorced from it now.

[DanGenck]

I hear what you guys are saying, but you have to give me that DI players are worrying about playing the game and that's it. Some club admin people are just trying to get a degree and they are stuck worrying about league decisions, team finances, travel, etc. That's a lot for college kids to deal with on top of playing and school work... especially for smaller programs without lots of dedicated help.

Granted, it's great work experience for jobs, but it's tough... that's for sure.

[PigPen]

Tim Nelson. He went to NCSU his freshman year in '82 but with the program being cancelled, he transferred to Syracuse. In '83 he was the leading scorer (15) in the NCAA tournament while leading the Orange to their first National Championship, over Hopkins. He ranks 5th all time on SU's career points with 271 in only 3 years with the team.

in the words of Darth Vader...IMPRESSIVE!

Name his brother who also played at Syracuse.

As for the schools thing-no one in the ACC will be going Varsity in the next twenty years. See Title IX arguement. I'd love to see FSU, but I'd also love to see myself on my own little chunk of real estate somewhere the Caribbean. I am not holding my breath on either. I think your more apt to see a school around Lindenwood's size (and with that same level of dedication to their non-traditonal sports). I really can't think of any schools off the top of my head that would meet this criteria.

[DG]

Tim Nelson. He went to NCSU his freshman year in '82 but with the program being cancelled, he transferred to Syracuse. In '83 he was the leading scorer (15) in the NCAA tournament while leading the Orange to their first National Championship, over Hopkins. He ranks 5th all time on SU's career points with 271 in only 3 years with the team.

in the words of Darth Vader...IMPRESSIVE!

Name his brother who also played at Syracuse.

As for the schools thing-no one in the ACC will be going Varsity in the next twenty years. See Title IX arguement. I'd love to see FSU, but I'd also love to see myself on my own little chunk of real estate somewhere the Caribbean. I am not holding my breath on either. I think your more apt to see a school around Lindenwood's size (and with that same level of dedication to their non-traditonal sports). I really can't think of any schools off the top of my head that would meet this criteria.

Tom Nelson. Yorktown class of '84, I believe. Glad he was gone by the time we played those guys...

[StrykerFSU]

I'm not sure I really understand why anyone would oppose the upgrade of their program to Varsity status. Granted I'm from the East Coast and played for a Div I team so I have an inherent bias towards the NCAA varsity teams but if you consider yourself a top flight player or a top team in the MEDIA, why would you be reluctant to move up to varsity and play against the top teams in the coutnry?

I noticed two lines of reasoning for remaining a club sport. The first was the "lacrosse all day" mentality found at varsity schools. From experience I can say that this is absolutely true. But again, if you consider yourself a top high school player isn't that just the type of atmosphere you should embrace? My school had very rigorous academic standards that required all student-athletes to learn to budget their time effectively whether they were business majors, engineer, or anything else. There was even time left over for just as much partying as I've seen going on at Florida State. In adittion, the athletes are alleviated from the burden of trying to fundraise on their own leaving them with perhaps more "non-lacrosse" time than their MDIA counterparts. So while varisty schools may have an atmosphere of "lacrosse all day", for the dedicated student-athlete, there is the opportunity for success on the field, in the classroom, and socially.

The second point I saw brought up was the question of scholarship money. It is true that lacrosse scholarships are few and far between and often do little to offset tuition but many schools, i.e. the Patriot League, use grant packages and other financial aid options to ease the financial burden on their athletes. Also, some of the more travelled MDIA programs have players paying $1000 or more per season in dues and equipment costs. That is no small cost for the parents who thought their financial responsibility ended when they wrote that tuition check.

I'm no expert on the ramifications of Title IX so I don't know about the chances of specific schools going DI but I do think that it should be one of the goals for every club. I understand folks being protective of the great that league that has been created in the MEDIA, but I believe that individual programs should strive to grow and compete at ever higher levels every year.

[OAKS]

I think another important question is this:

What does the NCAA do if say 10-15 years down the road if the MDIA is just as good or better than D3 (I know it's a stretch, but it's certainly possible) and pulling in 5000 spectators for big rivalries or good games (on our way there)?

[PigPen]

Tom Nelson. Yorktown class of '84, I believe. Glad he was gone by the time we played those guys...

as they say in Texas-yer good, real good.

But the real question is when do you play "those guys", darn huskers.

[DG]

Tom Nelson. Yorktown class of '84, I believe. Glad he was gone by the time we played those guys...

as they say in Texas-yer good, real good.

But the real question is when do you play "those guys", darn huskers.

Played is the operative word. There is at least one guy floating around these boards that did try to put Nelson in check. Maybe he'll tell a story. Check my sig, and you'll figure out when we played them...we were 12-7 my Senior year, with one of those losses to Ytown.

DG