Bad News for Duke

[Lax_Stats]

Ah, lax term; not criminal courts term. I was in criminal mode.

All right BlueVelvet, assume the position!!! LMAO You might want to make sure the position you assume isn't the "in-home" though! LOL

[yourmom]

OMG LaxFan25, that's too funny!! LMAO Way to use your imagination on that one!!! Finally, a little bit of humor in this thread.

However, apparently there is no "In-home" since the police arrived 2 minutes later and found no one in the home. So, therefore, there is no official "in-home" player.

In this case he would be the first player listed on the police blotter.
Perhaps you can explain it to BlueVelvet.

Must be local slang. Never heard of it.

Great now I have to re-evaluate any opinion and post you have had on this forum. (and thats way too many )

[Sonny]

Incident imperils Duke's image
Lacrosse case ups town-gown tension

Jane Stancill and Anne Blythe, Staff Writers

It should have been another triumphant spring at Duke University, with the women's basketball team in the Final Four and the most competitive admissions pool on record.

But as acceptance letters went out last week to more than 3,000 prospective freshmen, the university faced an unimaginable March madness. A gang-rape investigation of the men's lacrosse team sank Duke into a tawdry mess that made national headlines and played over and over in the 24-hour news cycle.

The situation has exposed serious issues of race, gender and class division. And it's dealt a devastating setback to the university's often fragile relationship with its hometown.

The players and their attorneys have strongly denied the allegations, and no criminal charges have been filed.

Now, while waiting for DNA results that may or may not identify suspects, people wonder how the university's reputation will bounce back and how the Duke-Durham bond can be repaired.

"It tears me up to think it's come to this," said Sylvia Kerckhoff, a former Durham mayor.

Many Duke alumni are hurt and angry about what they say has, so far, been a disgraceful episode for the university.

"Those guys have really ticked me off and embarrassed me," said Donald Van Dyke of Raleigh, who played lacrosse at Duke and graduated in 1978. "I wore that jersey, and they're wearing it now."

http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/424563.html

[StrykerFSU]

I had similar situation to LaxGoalie. I was in a bar in Kodiak, Alaska wearing an FSU Lacrosse shirt when the story appeared on Sportscenter above the bar. Two of my colleagues asked me about the situation and I found myself having to defend all athletes, not just lacrosse players. College athletes have a bad enough image with some of the recent situations, ala Colorado and Navy, but we lacrosse players were always somehow better. As my mother would say, "Lacrosse players are just special people". It deeply saddens me that a scandal of this magnitude has suliied the image of all of us.

Lax_Stats, I want to commend you for trying to keep everyone focused on innocent before proven guilty. If nothing else, shouldn't we wait until some one has been charged with a crime before denigrating the entire team? If we as lacrosse players can't do that, then how can we expect the rest of society to see lacrosse in a good light?

[Tim Whitehead]

Interesting article on the whole situation...

Everything about this, in fact, points to a culture - one of permissiveness about everything the athletes do, from drinking to rowdiness to disrespecting women, to, most of all, expecting to get away with it because of who they are.

Entitlement is at the heart of the issue and at the heart of the fury this incident and its handling has inspired. It's not just about college athletes getting in trouble; it's about lacrosse players. It's a sport of privilege played by children of privilege and supported by families of privilege. The university involved is one of privilege.

Plus, this incident has, as they say, "racial overtones." A pack of white lacrosse players - the one player not asked to submit a DNA sample for the investigation was also the only African-American on the roster - accused of an assault on a black dancer from the nearby historically black college, with passers-by hearing slurs shouted from the house and another woman calling 911 to report epithets hurled at her as she walked by? And a meeting yesterday afternoon between Duke President Richard Brodhead and a group of still-angry students being held at Duke's black cultural center?

"Overtones" is a gross understatement.

Too many people who are close to the sport see this as a symptom of the lacrosse culture for it not to be taken seriously. If any group of people should understand that, it should be those close to the game here - if not just because this is the epicenter of the sport, then because this also was the epicenter of what probably was the worst team-related incident before the one at Duke.

http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publ ... 1697.shtml

[Bluevelvet]

....If I am a cop investigating these accusations, I proceed like this. I immediately contact the reporting party to get her statement as well as dispatch other officers to the house to keep people there. I ask the alleged victim to give a description of her alleged attackers and I radio the officer to take these people into custody. I then take the alleged victim to the police station as well as the alleged attackers and run a line up. Those identified in the line up are arrested, charged, and jailed. Those not identified are released. I then forward the information to detectives to follow up and do further interviews. The detectives forward their reports onto the prosecuting attorney who decides if there is sufficient evidence to charge the identified alleged attackers or anyone else with a crime.
While I am not a police officer, as a defense attorney, I know how the legal system works. This is pretty much law enforcement 101. I'm not exactly sure what is going on, but something just isn't right here and I think the police realize that which is why no one has been arrested to this point.

As another defense attorney, I agree with most of what you said. That is the "normal way to proceed".
But, the article from Inside Lacrosse said that the police were at the scene within 2 minutes and no one was at the house at 610 N. Buchanan. Meanwhile, the alleged victim was 2 miles away in a supermarket parking lot. Difficult to get an ID and lineup under those circumstances. And even more difficult to get probable cause for an arrest.
I would be shocked if the police have not shown the alleged victim some type of photo spread of the lacrosse players. Maybe that is why the prosecutors claim to have enough evidence to proceed without positive DNA results. They could proceed on the victims statement, the rape kit exam, the neighbor's testimony, the physical evidence at the house and the photospread results (if any).
If there is no ID and no DNA evidence, there may be evidence of a crime but no basis to proceed against any individual...no criminal prosecution.

The father of the alleged victim said in a television interview that his daughter positively identified her three attackers, through photographs, as members of the lacrosse team.

As I thought. There was a photospread and ID. The DA could proceed with this case regardless of the DNA test results.

[DanGenck]

If you're willing to wait for the DNA, it's a slam dunk.

[Bluevelvet]

No one suggested filing charges before the DNA test is complete. Only that there is a case even with negative results. Misidentification would be the probable defense.
Still a slam dunk with negative DNA results?

[Lax_Stats]

The father of the alleged victim said in a television interview that his daughter positively identified her three attackers, through photographs, as members of the lacrosse team.

As I thought. There was a photospread and ID. The DA could proceed with this case regardless of the DNA test results.

Hmmm It could be this is a very elaborate hoax by the alleged victim in an attempt to "extort" money from players and/or Duke University. I notice it is the alleged victims father and not the police that are saying that she identified through photographs, the alleged attackers. Not too hard to identify people you just saw at a party, but that doesn't mean they committed any crime, it simply means that she identified 3 people she was familiar with.

Obviously the police themselves didn't feel there was enough evidence to arrest the 3 people in question, or things would have been happening like this:
1) Alleged victim is shown photo montages of those at the party to see if she can identify her alleged attackers.
2) Alleged attackers are positively identified by the alleged victim.
3) The police take into custody those identified for investigation of the alleged charges.
4) The alleged attackers are interviewed separately from one another to see what their side of the story/facts are.
5) Based on those interviews, the police determine there is enough probable cause to arrest and charge the alleged attackers and they are fingerprinted, photographed, and jailed to await being bailed out or arraignment. If the police do not feel there is enough probable cause to arrest the alleged suspects, they are released and the case turned over to detectives for further investigation. 6) Based on the findings by the police, the matter is either dropped for lack of evidence and probable cause, or the matter is referred to the prosecuting attorneys office for review and their determination if enough evidence exists to warrant filing any charges.
7) The prosecuting attorney's office either charges the alleged offenders, or the matter is dropped.

Keep in mind that the alleged victim could also be trying to stir up this situation as much as possible to and create as much public outrage as she can to insure a jury would more likely find for her in a civil suit and help convince Duke and the alleged attackers to settle out of court. Just another possible scenario folks. But go back and read all the postings in this thread as well as the news articles, and then try and tell me I might not be onto something here.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

I think that you would need to find some actual idea of who your suspects are before you start doing id by the alleged victim. If you just show her pictures of people who were at the party, without people who werent, shes guaranteed to pick someone. If you do it with a few people you might think it would be and several random people, and she picks them out, that would be much stronger. However, she may be able to just see familiar faces from being at the party and recognize them even if they werent involved. I think the DNA is very important to determine the suspects, then cross it with her identification. Without the DNA its just circumstantial evidence from my understanding. But I dont make my living as a lawyer, nor will I ever, so I may be way off.

[laxative]

I'm not even sure if a positive DNA sample means they are guilty of rape. It is still possible that the, eh'hem, DNA was left consentually. Stranger things have happened.

[Bluevelvet]

A rape exam is to determine whether the victim has had non consentual sex--there are physical signs.
As I said, with no DNA, the defense would be misidentification.
Assuming that the rape kit exam is actually postive (the victim had forceable sex). Then a crime occurred.
The question is who did it. Although I can't understand why the defense attorneys tied themselves down with assertions that there was no sex at the party, there are plenty of ways to attack an eyewitness identification and I'm confident that the attorneys will be able to do that.
I don't go as far as you Lax-Stats, but there seem to be alot weaknesses in the prosecution's case. But, positive DNA results could cure alot of those problems.

[Sonny]

But, positive DNA results could cure alot of those problems.

And if there are negative DNA results????

[Bluevelvet]

But, positive DNA results could cure alot of those problems.

And if there are negative DNA results????

As I said, misidentification defense, assuming that there actually was a rape kit exam and an ID of 3 suspects.

[Lax_Stats]

A rape exam is to determine whether the victim has had non consentual sex--there are physical signs.
As I said, with no DNA, the defense would be misidentification.
Assuming that the rape kit exam is actually postive (the victim had forceable sex). Then a crime occurred.
The question is who did it. Although I can't understand why the defense attorneys tied themselves down with assertions that there was no sex at the party, there are plenty of ways to attack an eyewitness identification and I'm confident that the attorneys will be able to do that.
I don't go as far as you Lax-Stats, but there seem to be alot weaknesses in the prosecution's case. But, positive DNA results could cure alot of those problems.

What about the person who likes "rough sex"??? Can a rape kit differentiate between consensual rough sex and rape???? Rape usually does leave some pretty telling signs, but here is another fact that will make rape in this case pretty hard to prove. By the dancers own admission, she initially left the house because she was scared. If she was so scared for the reasons she said she was, would anyone, male or female, have gone back inside that house???? I know I wouldn't have!!!