Running up the score/sportsmanship

[PokePokeSLAP]

A disgusting amount of penalties was called on both teams (penalties were evenly called, but that doesn't necessarily make it right), really limited the amount of good lacrosse that could be played.

What is absent is any claim that the teams did not commit a large number of fouls. I don't get this: is it disgusting to call a lot of penalties if the teams are in fact committing a large number of fouls? Could the large number of fouls be limiting the amount of good lacrosse that could be played rather than the officials calling the fouls?

Also, penalties need not be distributed evenly if the fouls are not distributed evenly!

the exorbitant amount of penalties being called across many leagues definietely belittles the game we all love so dearly, when refs call every little thing that is all a part of a contact sport, IN WHICH WE WEAR PADS FOR A REASON, everyone suffers slowing the game to a grinding halt as to prove you know the rulebook is ridiculous. Club ball will never mature to what we all want it to, as long as we continue to put up with absurdities from the zebras.

that being said, i also have no problem with a great deal of laundry as long as it is warranted which it was not in this particular game (i saw it first hand). additionally there are still teams and players that refuse to play with the finesse that this game requires, and they should never complain when they get called out for being a hack.

[LaxRef]

all a part of a contact sport, IN WHICH WE WEAR PADS FOR A REASON

I just never bought the, "it's a contact sport and we wear pads, therefore everyone should be able to beat the crap out of everyone else" argument. It's not clear that you're making that argument here, but some people do make that argument. Just because it's a contact sport doesn't mean all contact is legal--some is explicitly illegal--and just because players wear pads doesn't mean that anything goes.

OTOH, if both sides are dishing out and receiving the same level of, say, slap checks to the forearm--which we all (I hope) know are technically illegal--it doesn't make a lot of sense to flag every one of them from either teams.

[CPLaxGM]

28 goals in a game is certainly a lot of points, but without actually being there and seeing the game it's difficult to say if the victor's sportsmanship should be questioned. As a coach, I never stuck to the 19 goal rule, but rather made sure that all of our players saw substantial time in a blowout like that. Even in our best season, we still had plenty of young and relatively inexperienced players that had worked hard in practice and deserved playing time when the opportunity arose, which didn't happen too often. It's hardly fair to tell those guys to go out there and play, but don't score. On the other hand, and echoing what others have said, if you've got the starting attack on the field in the fourth quarter pushing for a stat-padding ten point game, well that's a whole different story.

One other thing to consider, Willamette is not a good team. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or argumentative, but they have been down at the very bottom of the MCLA Division 2 for many seasons in a row. I actually considered doing a short write-up on their recent game vs UOP, as a sort of "repus" bowl coverage (if you buy the old adage any publicity is good publicity), but decided it wasn't really appropriate since it was so early in the season and maybe one of them would climb out of the cellar this season. So with that in mind, and if WWU is a pretty strong team, scoring 28 goals without being unsportsmanlike may not be a stretch.

And lastly, with regard to the officiating. I can never let an opportunity pass to bash the officiating in the Pacific Northwest. We all know the officiating varies greatly from region to region, and games are called very differently in different parts of the country. I'm sure things are getting better in the PNCLL, but the times that I've played up there the officiating has been pretty bad, with way too many penalties called on very routine checks. In ten years of coaching, it's the only time I remember complaining about a penalty called against the other team.

[PigPen]

I'll speak to some of those old days that almost definitely out dates everyone here. The A&M team that I was on was beating up on a SWLA opponent back in the mid 90's and we got 29 goals up on the board. The last ten goals were definitely of the mercy kind where we were trying to take the air out of the ball and run the clock out but the team that we were playing didn't want to admit that. So while each of us took some nice stall warnings when leaving the box, we definitely had called the dogs off. But this team would come pressing us out to the sidelines, even doubling us all the while throwing some vicious slashes. the type of things that when you are down by three touchdowns that isn't very nice.

I had the ball with time running out (30 seconds or so), I run to the back corner of the box just looking to sit on the rock. My defenseman followed by another goon start wielding their poles like they are auditioning for the Last Samurai or something, so I roll to get out of the situation and find myself going towards the goal from behind. I thought it would be more humiliating not to shoot with a one on one with the keeper (truth be told that I as also pissed that those hacks couldn't recognize that we were trying to be sporting and decided to try and break my arms) so I wound up scoring to make it a nice and even 30.

My point-we weren't trying to run up the score, we knew we had one, that wasn't us to rub it in their faces, but it's hard not to just go out there and score when people start playing dirty or not recognizing the situation-so it runs both ways, there etiquette on both sides of the fence.

When I coached TX HS ball I was accused of running up the score once-but truth be told, how am I going to tell a 9th line middie (no joke-we really did have nine lines-we couldn't cut anyone) not to score when this was the only time that this kid would ever see the field in his life.

Well actually I couldn't tell him not to score-I didn't even know his name, I just kept calling him "Hey number 93-come here".

[shep]

I'll speak to some of those old days that almost definitely out dates everyone here. The A&M team that I was on was beating up on a SWLA opponent back in the mid 90's and we got 29 goals up on the board. The last ten goals were definitely of the mercy kind where we were trying to take the air out of the ball and run the clock out but the team that we were playing didn't want to admit that. So while each of us took some nice stall warnings when leaving the box, we definitely had called the dogs off. But this team would come pressing us out to the sidelines, even doubling us all the while throwing some vicious slashes. the type of things that when you are down by three touchdowns that isn't very nice.

I had the ball with time running out (30 seconds or so), I run to the back corner of the box just looking to sit on the rock. My defenseman followed by another goon start wielding their poles like they are auditioning for the Last Samurai or something, so I roll to get out of the situation and find myself going towards the goal from behind. I thought it would be more humiliating not to shoot with a one on one with the keeper (truth be told that I as also pissed that those hacks couldn't recognize that we were trying to be sporting and decided to try and break my arms) so I wound up scoring to make it a nice and even 30.

My point-we weren't trying to run up the score, we knew we had one, that wasn't us to rub it in their faces, but it's hard not to just go out there and score when people start playing dirty or not recognizing the situation-so it runs both ways, there etiquette on both sides of the fence.

When I coached TX HS ball I was accused of running up the score once-but truth be told, how am I going to tell a 9th line middie (no joke-we really did have nine lines-we couldn't cut anyone) not to score when this was the only time that this kid would ever see the field in his life.

Well actually I couldn't tell him not to score-I didn't even know his name, I just kept calling him "Hey number 93-come here".

That's an interesting issue....you don't want the other team to just lay down and die (i.e. not trying to play D at all), if anything you'd expect them to fight as hard as they've been fighting all game. On the other hand, doubling behind the goal is a bit much against an offense that is obviously trying to run out the clock. That combined with overall thuggery would justify a few more late goals in my mind. I'd want the D to battle whether they were up big or down big, but there's a right or wrong way to do it. Perhaps D-poles on a team bad enough to be down by 20+ may have such limited lax experience/savvy that they don't know the differece.

[benji]

It's a delicate issue...

But I really don't see a problem if a team keeps doing what they've been doing the entire game and it so happens that they score in the process. I think it's an insult to the game and to the other team to 'play down' simply because you have a lead.

Both teams go into a game prepared for 60 minutes of lacrosse. The score differential at the final buzzer merely becomes a detail when the W or L statistic is the only one that really matters.

That's not to say that teams with a comfortable or more than comfortable lead should make every effort to score as many as possible, but if you're well-up on an opponent and still scoring while you're pretty deep into you're rotation and still scoring goals, then I think you're team is just playing good lacrosse.

I've been on both sides of the situation, and if you get beat by 20 goals, then you get beat by 20. It should be motivation to improve. You can't ask kids to stop playing when they bust their tails all season to be a great team.

[nhoskins]

If you are playing somebody and have the game well in hand you may not want to show all of your stuff. You may want to just show your base offense and keep the new or other stuff for a new game.

With the increase in the number of games being taped, particularly amongst teams in the top 25, keeping the new stuff under wraps and working it in intersquad scrimmages is probably a better idea than letting future opponents tape your new plays as they are developed.

[laxfan25]

If any of you would like tapes of your practices, email me at
bbelichick@nepatriots.com. I've got copies of them all on file.

[Beta]

If any of you would like tapes of your practices, email me at
bbelichick@nepatriots.com. I've got copies of them all on file.

Hahaha! I thought the email address was actually

bbelichick@18-1.com

[laxfan25]

If any of you would like tapes of your practices, email me at
bbelichick@nepatriots.com. I've got copies of them all on file.

Hahaha! I thought the email address was actually

bbelichick@18-1.com

Touche! (Is that website trademarked??)

[Jana]

What is the PNCLL policy for tie breakers to get into the playoffs and/or rankings? Is it based on specific stats? Goals scored? Goals Against?

The NWWLA chose goals-against stat as the tie breaker for rankings, to try to eliminate any incentive to run up the score. I have also seen players switch sticks to weak hand, switch offense and defense, etc to try to make the game more enjoyable for all involved.

Last spring we actually came down to the tie breaker for the #4 and #5 teams, so it made a difference in seeding the playoffs. Hopefully the incentive it to play strong defense, and not roll over in the final 15 minutes of the game. Anyway, that's the philosophy behind the policy. There are still games where teams get shelled, but I think it would be worse if we had a goals-scored policy for tie breakers in rankings.

Respectfully,
Jana Lauderbaugh
NWWLA President

[LaxRef]

What is the PNCLL policy for tie breakers to get into the playoffs and/or rankings? Is it based on specific stats? Goals scored? Goals Against?

The NWWLA chose goals-against stat as the tie breaker for rankings, to try to eliminate any incentive to run up the score. I have also seen players switch sticks to weak hand, switch offense and defense, etc to try to make the game more enjoyable for all involved.

Last spring we actually came down to the tie breaker for the #4 and #5 teams, so it made a difference in seeding the playoffs. Hopefully the incentive it to play strong defense, and not roll over in the final 15 minutes of the game. Anyway, that's the philosophy behind the policy. There are still games where teams get shelled, but I think it would be worse if we had a goals-scored policy for tie breakers in rankings.

Respectfully,
Jana Lauderbaugh
NWWLA President

It is much more typical to use goals against rather than goals scored so as not to encourage teams to run up the score.

[Steno]

Freshman year I remember we ended up scoring a higher playoff seed because we had scored more goals against C of I than UPS scored on CofI (UPS and Whitman were tied in all other respects)

[Jana]

Just to be clear, when we use the term "goals-against" it refers to the number of goals other teams have scored "against" your team, or "goals allowed" by your goalie (perhaps that is the most efficient way to describe it)

Example:
Team A has a 6-2-1 win-loss-tie record in regular season
Team B has a 6-2-1 win-loss-tie record in regular season

Team A vs Team B regular season game was the tie.

Team A had 137 goals scored against them during the regular season.
Team B had 136 goals scored against them during the regular season.

Team B would get the higher ranking in the playoffs

Do the men's rules have a mercy rule requiring the clock to run through penalties if there is more than a 10 goal differential?

[LaxRef]

Do the men's rules have a mercy rule requiring the clock to run through penalties if there is more than a 10 goal differential?

There is no mercy rule in NCAA Men's Lacrosse. In NFHS lacrosse, the game goes to running time as long as one team has a lead of 12 or more goals in the second half.