Illegal stick clarification

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

3 min. NR is kind of like the death penalty. It's amazing how few goals have actually been scored in those situations though.

thats partially what caused my high school team to get knocked out of the tourney though, so it does go both ways.

One of my old coaches use to joke around saying if you ever want a good long time out when you are out of them, call a stick check on a goalie stick as half the time, the refs have to meet up to remember what are the rules regarding a goalie stick to figure everything out. Never actually seen it done.

that happened plenty against us this year cause our goalie used an attackmans shaft, so teams would call it thinking it was too short, but it is longer than 40'' so it was still legal. i got a few good laughs about it after seeing it about 4 times.

[TexOle]

I wonder if you argue that the stringing of the stick caused it to stay that way. Then you get to fix it and only go down 1 minute. Theoretically there is no rule that says how narrow a stick may be at its narrowest point. It just have to be at least 6.5 inches at some point. I also don' t think most players know what weather can do to a head. Also face offs can change the size of a head. So sticks before a game might be legal, but after play starts the it changes shape. My advice is if you think this has happened to a stick and you get called then adjust the head all you can. You will get an Unsportsmanlike penalty non releasable penalty for a minute, but you might save your team 2 minutes.
I have seen a few requests for a stick check. The thing to remember is you can check all the equipment. I had one last year where the coach needed it for a timeout. I have had a few this year. One was on a face off guy who got the ball lodged in the back of his stick. I called the with holding from play and turned it over. The coaches asked for a stick check and lost. The coaches could not believe it. Stringing back there makes a difference. I did see another player get a ball stuck back there and not realize it. When I finally saw he had the ball back there I was the only one who knew it. The player with the ball was trying to cross check other players looking for the ball with the ball stuck in the back of his stick. That was funny. I had one in a game where a player did not have a ball stop. The other team noticed it and requested a stick check. They got their EMO. I let the head ref do the check, but after looking at the high school rule book again it is listed as a fix before returning to play and not illegal. That team that called for an illegal stick won the game by over 10 so I don't think they were hurt by the penalty. My favorite story came not too long ago. Two brothers were playing against each other. One brother pointed out that the other one had an illegal stick. It was checked and found to be illegal. Not too long after the other team had the other brother's stick inspected and it was also illegal. The illegal equipment issues are always hot topics. It is best to have stuff inspected by a coach just before the game.

[Catlax]

You don't see a lot of stick checks, because the vast majority of coaches think it is a bush league request. If you don't believe me, take a look at the face on Petrimalla (sp?) after Starsa asked for a stick check on JHU's tying goal with 1.4 on the clock. It's usually a desperate move by a desperate coach.

[bste_lax]

You don't see a lot of stick checks, because the vast majority of coaches think it is a bush league request. If you don't believe me, take a look at the face on Petrimalla (sp?) after Starsa asked for a stick check on JHU's tying goal with 1.4 on the clock. It's usually a desperate move by a desperate coach.

I am also a believer that you should never really call a stick check, especially in that situation, unless its insanely illegal.

That said, I was a big fan all game and esepcially at that point with the refs being mic'd. Great to see and hear them during that crucial part of the game and him even double checking with the refs with each check of the stick. Good job by ESPN.

[laxfan25]

I wonder if you argue that the stringing of the stick caused it to stay that way. Then you get to fix it and only go down 1 minute.

TexOle, I believe you're mistaken on your call. The only stick penalty that is for a minute, and where they can adjust the stick, is if the pocket is too deep. If a stick is strung such that the ball doesn't come out when turned over, that is a 3 minute NR, and the stick is out of the game. That is what cottle was arguing on his player's stick, but the refs made the right call - 3 minutes.

[TexOle]

I would argue anything I could as a coach. I never said it would work. I cannot find anything in the Federation book about it. You have to remember that stringing stuff can be fixed. Odds are as an official I would always blame the plastic. I had a guy I played with point out that the stringing made his stick illegal and won. He also got caught for an illegal stick later for the same thing. It is ok because he smelled. Remember that it never hurts to try some stuff.

[sledgehammer]

When McGlone's penalty was called, I agreed that it should have only been a 1 minute. It's easy to say that the pocket depth is the only thing that can be fixed because, up until just recently, that was the truth. Now, with heads being manufactured to the smallest legal specifications, the stringing can have an effect on whether the ball falls out. If the sidewall strings are pulled tight to keep the depth legal (or for any other reason), they will go to the inside of the pocket instead of down. With the plastic is as narrow as they are in warrior heads, this essentially makes the area for the ball to travel through too small. McGlone didn't bake or pinch his stick, but he still should have been more careful.

[laxfan25]

When McGlone's penalty was called, I agreed that it should have only been a 1 minute. It's easy to say that the pocket depth is the only thing that can be fixed because, up until just recently, that was the truth. Now, with heads being manufactured to the smallest legal specifications, the stringing can have an effect on whether the ball falls out. If the sidewall strings are pulled tight to keep the depth legal (or for any other reason), they will go to the inside of the pocket instead of down. With the plastic is as narrow as they are in warrior heads, this essentially makes the area for the ball to travel through too small. McGlone didn't bake or pinch his stick, but he still should have been more careful.

Here is what the NCAA book says on the subject: "Illegal Crosse
SECTION 5. A player may not use a crosse that does not conform to required specifications. Use of an illegal crosse carries a one- or three-minute nonreleasable penalty. A crosse found illegal due to a deep pocket will carry a one-minute non-releasable penalty. A player using a crosse found illegal because it was altered to gain an advantage will receive a three-minute nonreleasable penalty, and the illegal crosse will remain in the table area for the remainder of the game. Every crosse on a team is subject to inspection, and the crosse need not have been in the game to be inspected."

As you can see, a deep pocket violation is the only one that carries a one-minute sanction. The refs made the right call against McGlone. Nothing has changed in this rule "recently". If the manufacturers are selling sticks that don't conform, because of narrow throats or stringing that retards the dislodgement of the ball, buyer beware! Coaches beware too, since you're certifying that tyour team is legally equipped.

[Mike Messina]

We had the same thing happen to us in the CCLA semi vs. Oakland.
The ref called only a one minute and we were able to fix the stick and get it back into the game.

[John Paul]

McGlone was using a Warrior Evo Pro. Warrior cuts it very close with the Evo Pro. The width, out of the factory, is legal, but just barely. However, when they are strung if you tie off the shooting strings inside the sidewalls, the ball can catch on them when you invert the stick. That's what happened to McGlone (and because it's a stick alteration issue, 3 minutes is the correct call). If you tie the shooting strings outside the sidewalls, it's not a problem.

The funny part of this is Maryland is sponsored by STX. Their players are all supposed to be using STX sticks. The coaches didn't notice McGlone was using a Warrior stick. He switched to his backup, which is STX, and if you watch his next run 3 minutes later, he had a lot of trouble throwing (not because it's STX, but because he wasn't used to it). During the next week in practice he could not get his STX stick to work consistently for him, so he switched back to his (previously illegal) Warrior stick for the semifinal game. They wrote "STX" on it to satisfy the sponsors.

[Sonny]

such a dramatic flag throwing motion.

Referees are taught to do that (in the case of an illegal crosse penalty). It is one of the few times, you are attempting to draw extra attention to yourself on the field as an official.

[Catlax]

As opposed to when the benches are yelling and screaming at you?

[Gopherlax29]

You don't see a lot of stick checks, because the vast majority of coaches think it is a bush league request. If you don't believe me, take a look at the face on Petrimalla (sp?) after Starsa asked for a stick check on JHU's tying goal with 1.4 on the clock. It's usually a desperate move by a desperate coach.

Yeah I even said to my buddy when they scored with 12 ticks that JHU might have as well called a stick check on it. But he didn't and I don't think that the UVA coach shoudl have either, unless he KNEW it was illegal.

[laxfan25]

I don't understand why people say a coach shouldn't call for a stick check, or that it's bush league. It is a clear perogative in the rules, and if the stick (or other equipment) is legal there's no issue. What's the big deal? If I was an opposing coach I would have no objection or hard feelings.

[LaxRef]

I would argue anything I could as a coach. I never said it would work. I cannot find anything in the Federation book about it. You have to remember that stringing stuff can be fixed.

This is a myth that is not supported by the rules. There is nothing in the rules that says "Stringing problems are 1:00 NR and can be fixed." Some officials who aren't particularly rules-savvy have been boondoggled by people constantly repeating this myth.

If the pocket is deep and the ball won't roll out, we may well call 1:00 NR, since it may be the deep pocket that's causing the ball to not roll out. But if the ball won't roll out, 3:00 NR is the right call. It may be the stringing, it may be the head, but it's not our job to try to figure out which one it is, it's the player's job to make sure his stick is legal.

Of course, the rules could be much clearer on all of this stuff.