NCLL teams joining MCLA?

[SLDINI]

You know what is a great thing about this league and coaching in it is you make the most of what you are given and the sky is the limit. There are tons of examples of coaches and teams that have turned the corner and made a run at the Championships and not just big national schools. What I hate to hear are excuses, like my school doesn't support our team or I could never charge more then $500. Lets be real we all have the same disadvantages none of our schools support us that is why we are clubs, yes some get more money and others have nicer fields but in the end we are all clubs and you make the most of that and you can either make something of it or you can wallow in self pity. As for the money argument lets honestly think about that, it costs a kid $450-$500 for a week of lacrosse camp, $150 for gloves and $150 for helmet. Do you think that charging them $2000 for an all-inclusive lacrosse program that travels nationally is that out of whack? If it is write a letter a to the parents and bill them, I find it is a lot easier to talk to parents about money than players.

[TheNino57]

You know what is a great thing about this league and coaching in it is you make the most of what you are given and the sky is the limit. There are tons of examples of coaches and teams that have turned the corner and made a run at the Championships and not just big national schools. What I hate to hear are excuses, like my school doesn't support our team or I could never charge more then $500. Lets be real we all have the same disadvantages none of our schools support us that is why we are clubs, yes some get more money and others have nicer fields but in the end we are all clubs and you make the most of that and you can either make something of it or you can wallow in self pity. As for the money argument lets honestly think about that, it costs a kid $450-$500 for a week of lacrosse camp, $150 for gloves and $150 for helmet. Do you think that charging them $2000 for an all-inclusive lacrosse program that travels nationally is that out of whack? If it is write a letter a to the parents and bill them, I find it is a lot easier to talk to parents about money than players.

That's some interesting insight. Honestly, I have never heard anyone make the argument (I'm referring to the camp costs vs. club dues argument) from that perspective. No sarcasm meant here. Coach, do you mind if I use your argument in the future when recruiting players?

[mholtz]

You know what is a great thing about this league and coaching in it is you make the most of what you are given and the sky is the limit. There are tons of examples of coaches and teams that have turned the corner and made a run at the Championships and not just big national schools. What I hate to hear are excuses, like my school doesn't support our team or I could never charge more then $500. Lets be real we all have the same disadvantages none of our schools support us that is why we are clubs, yes some get more money and others have nicer fields but in the end we are all clubs and you make the most of that and you can either make something of it or you can wallow in self pity. As for the money argument lets honestly think about that, it costs a kid $450-$500 for a week of lacrosse camp, $150 for gloves and $150 for helmet. Do you think that charging them $2000 for an all-inclusive lacrosse program that travels nationally is that out of whack? If it is write a letter a to the parents and bill them, I find it is a lot easier to talk to parents about money than players.

That's some interesting insight. Honestly, I have never heard anyone make the argument (I'm referring to the camp costs vs. club dues argument) from that perspective. No sarcasm meant here. Coach, do you mind if I use your argument in the future when recruiting players?

Yes, it is a great point. I have parents ask me where the money goes all the time, and I have no problem "opening up the books" and showing them. When they realize that a helmet is $130 and a bag is $100 and gloves are $100 and a flight to cali is $350 and a weeks hotel is......
You get the point.

I don't share our budget with the world, but I am willing to share it with anyone that is giving me money.

So if you want to see MSU's budget you can send a check for $1000 to...

[John Paul]

This is a bit of a tangent from the original thread on NCLL expansion, but...

We raised our dues to $3500 this year (from $2000) by request of our parent booster club leaders. They know our budget, and they wanted to put less burden on fundraising (which is still a huge undertaking). It's all about value. If they feel they are getting a worthwhile value for the money spent, there is no hesitation to pay it. In fact, many current parents contribute substantially more on top of dues through private donations.

We've been using the dues vs. camp costs analogy for years when we recruit. We've found that most of the kids we speak to (their parents, actually) are already paying thousands every year for lacrosse. Between two or three camps each summer at over $500 per week plus travel, equipment, costs to play on their high school teams, recruiting services, clinics and private instruction, and sometimes thousands of dollars for summer club teams, $3500 for an all-inclusive experience on a college team seems like a bargain to them.

Realize that we didn't just jump to that number though. 10 years ago our dues were about $100 plus equipment and travel costs. 5 years ago they were $1500 with no additional charges for any gear, apparel or travel (all included). Last year they were $2000. It took some time to build up the perceived value of the program, the level of parent involvement, and the sales pitch.

Two pieces of advice for programs just embarking on this process:
1. Get to a dues number that includes EVERYTHING. Players should pay one amount that includes every possible team expense they could incur. No extra charges for new equipment, apparel, travel, etc. Be liberal with that number. Obviously, it's much better to finish in the black than in the red.
2. Get parents involved in the process. In most cases, that's where the money is coming from. If they believe in the program they will support it.

[onetime]

Cant believe you guys have so much time on your hands... .... Laff good discussion....Reading JP is like reading Opdyke..

[laxdad03]

I hate to possibly lay myself open to accusations about trying to resurrect a dead horse or two, and I certainly mean no slight or disrespect to any team or to anyone, but I'm genuinely trying to learn and understand something. I just saw an article abount Dominican U in WSL:

http://westsidelax.com/index.php?id=204,1860,0,0,1,0

saying, among other things,

"This season, we will be playing NAIA, which means we will be a varsity team supported by our athletic department and our players won't have to pay to play," Webster said. "NCAA Division II is definitely in our future. It's just a question of when, and hopefully we'll make that decision in June."

Dominican has a 13-game schedule lined up for 2007, with 12 games against club teams and one game against potential-future NCAA Division II rival Notre Dame de Namur University. This will be the third season of varsity lacrosse coming up for Dominican, which went 1-11 in 2006.

This raises a number of questions in my feeble mind.

What is NAIA lacrosse, and how does it relate to other leagues? The NAIA website doesn't list lacrosse as one of its sports, and Wikipedia (the great source of all wisdom) doesn't either. On laxpower they are listed under MCLA-A (under the subheading "DII NAIA") -- presumably this is just because they play MCLA-A and B teams almost exclusively, I understand they aren't really MCLA; is there just no other place to put them until they go NCAA? Apparently there aren't too many other NAIA lax teams, as (for example) Domincan apparently doesn't play any. If they are in their "third season of varsity lacrosse", is this another potential avenue into eventual NCAA status? Were they club at one time previously? They so far arguably have not been nearly as successful (record-wise) as most MCLA teams, what will their transition to NCAA be like? Apparently Westminster College (just starting up, now in RMLC-B) is also an NAIA school, heading towards NCAA DII some day; how does that compare? I think there was a post saying Dominican had wanted to apply to the WCLL but missed the deadline, how does this relate with their team being considered "varsity" and supported by the athletic department, and players don't pay to play?

I wish nothing but success for Dominican (and Westminster, and everyone else for that matter), I'm just trying to understand.

[Sonny]

Other NAIA schools in the MCLA = Lindenwood (MO) and Savannah College of Art & Design (GA). There are a few more...

[Jay Wisnieski]

Two more NAIA schools are Northwesten and Dordt (Both in GRLC-B).

From what I understand, the NAIA is not part of the NCAA. It is its own league that provides smaller schools a chance to compete, whereas if they were in the NCAA, they wouldn't have the resources to remain competitive with the other schools in their division (I use Morningside College from Sioux City as an example. Morningside was NCAA D-2 with U. of South Dakota for a long time, but then they decided to move down to the NAIA so they could do well in athletics on more of a conistent basis. Of course, there was the one night Morningside took Iowa State to OT in men's basketball, but I digress). Please correct me if any of the things I said are incorrect.

how does this relate with their team being considered "varsity" and supported by the athletic department, and players don't pay to play?

I'm sure Coach Hood has answered questions like this on numerous occasions on this board, but I couldn't find any of them when I went searching, so I just assume all of his posts about it were lost when the site crashed.