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January 2008 "Stripes" Posted
Posted:
Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:26 pmby LaxRef
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:18 amby Sonny
Good work as always LaxRef. I love the rules quizzes!
Quibble about question # 11 from the latest quiz. I don't see how this could be a crease violation (illegal re-entry) by the keeper. If he leaves the crease, he can leave the crease (become a field player) to play the ball. If he gets the ball, he can return to the crease with it. Just can't leave with it again.
What am I missing?
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:17 amby LaxRef
Sonny wrote:Good work as always LaxRef. I love the rules quizzes!
Thanks!
Sonny wrote:Quibble about question # 11 from the latest quiz. I don't see how this could be a crease violation (illegal re-entry) by the keeper. If he leaves the crease, he can leave the crease (become a field player) to play the ball. If he gets the ball, he can return to the crease with it. Just can't leave with it again. What am I missing?
See:
NCAA 4-19-c wrote:A defending player, including the goalkeeper, with the ball in his possession, may not enter the goal-crease area, nor may he remain within the goal-crease area in possession of the ball longer than four seconds.
A player is considered to have entered the goal-crease area when any part of his body touches the goal-crease area.
The goalkeeper is considered to be outside the goal-crease area when no part of his body touches the goal-crease area and part of his body is touching an area outside of the goal-crease area.
A.R. 96. Goalkeeper B1 makes a save, takes one step out of the crease, raises his rear foot off the ground in the crease and then places his rear foot down to the ground in the crease. RULING: Ball is awarded to Team A outside the attack area. Goalkeeper is considered to have left and re-entered the crease while ball was in his possession.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:31 pmby Sonny
I don't see A.R 96 applying here. In your question on the quiz, he didn't have possesion when he lifted his foot out of the crease.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:51 pmby LaxRef
Sonny wrote:I don't see A.R 96 applying here. In your question on the quiz, he didn't have possesion when he lifted his foot out of the crease.
But it's surely covered by the rest of what I quoted.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:16 pmby Sonny
LaxRef wrote:Sonny wrote:I don't see A.R 96 applying here. In your question on the quiz, he didn't have possesion when he lifted his foot out of the crease.
But it's surely covered by the rest of what I quoted.
But the situations are completely different.
In A.R. 96, the keeper makes a save, leaves the crease, and then reenters the crease with possession.
IN question 11, the keeper is attempting to play a loose ball outside the crease. He doesn't have possession like he does in A.R. 96.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:16 pmby laxfan25
The key is if he rakes the ball into his stick (possession) before he puts his rear foot back down. If he does, that is illegal crease re-entry. If he reaches out and rakes it back and then puts his foot down before he gets it in his stick - we've got no problem.
It's actually a fairly common occurrence.
Q 11 says "he rakes the ball into his crosse, then puts his rear foot down inside the crease". I think that implies strongly that he gained possession before stepping down again.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:22 pmby Sonny
Quiz Question 11 wrote:Goalkeeper B1 steps outside the crease with one foot and reaches out to clamp a loose ball. As he reaches, his rear foot loses contact with the ground but stays inside the crease cylinder. He rakes the ball into his crosse, then puts his rear foot back down inside the crease.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:25 pmby Sonny
laxfan25 wrote:If he reaches out and rakes it back and then puts his foot down before he gets it in his stick - we've got no problem.
That was the situation I thought the question was asking.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:25 pmby laxfan25
Sonny wrote:Quiz Question 11 wrote:Goalkeeper B1 steps outside the crease with one foot and reaches out to clamp a loose ball. As he reaches, his rear foot loses contact with the ground but stays inside the crease cylinder. He rakes the ball into his crosse, then puts his rear foot back down inside the crease.
Doesn't this mean he got possession?
Kinda funny - our posts keep crossing!! I think we're all in agreement on what the rule is, and like pornography, we all know it when we see it!
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:44 pmby LaxRef
Sorry, we were talking at cross purposes. Thanks to LF25 for pointing out the point of confusion.
Yes, the question was intended to show that the goalie first gained possession and then put the foot in the crease. I think we're all in agreement that that's illegal re-entry, and that if he rakes or otherwise moves the ball legally into the crease and then re-enters and gains possession it's a legal play.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:27 pmby Michael Martin
It is always interesting to see how the officials will call goalie possession in a game. Some feel possession is gained with the clamp, while others require the ball to be in the stick. I tell my players to adjust to the officials.
Problems arise when officials are not consistent within a game crew. I have seen games with possession calls in the first period and, after changing ends, the opposite call in the second period.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:42 pmby Sonny
The ball clamped underneath the stick (outside the crease) is not possession.
A player can't interfere with the keeper when he has the ball clamped inside the crease.
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:47 pmby LaxRef
Sonny wrote:The ball clamped underneath the stick (outside the crease) is not possession.
A player can't interfere with the keeper when he has the ball clamped inside the crease.
Good point! I could see people who don't know the rules conclude that possession was being called differently in these situations, when the ball was actually considered to be loose each time and the real difference is that the stick contact occurred outside the crease the first time and inside the crease the second time.
(Hopefully every official knows that a clamped ball is not possession.)
Posted:
Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:50 pmby Michael Martin
I am quite aware of the rule and the lack of possession with the clamp. Just making the observation about its enforcement in game situations. I have seen many officials give the goalie possession with the clamp.