Kicking the Crosse Question

Discuss the rules of the game & the world of officiating.

Postby LaxRef on Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:35 pm

Sonny wrote:Under 2007 NCAA rules, if B2 intentionally kicks A1's crosse - Unsportsmanlike conduct on B2. But you would have a VERY hard time selling that call after they raced downfield and score (extended play).


That's not quite right. I think you're looking at:

NCAA Rule 6 wrote:A.R. 43. A1 drops his crosse, which is not broken, and B1 (1) Accidentally steps on or
kicks A1’s crosse; or (2) Intentionally steps on, kicks or otherwise moves A1’s crosse to
try to keep A1 from recovering it.
RULING: (1) No foul for interference because the
crosse is not in possession. (2) Unsportsmanlike conduct on B1.


But the following is more on point:

NCAA Rule 6 wrote:A.R. 44. A1, in a crowded scrimmage area, drops his crosse with the ball in it. (1) A1
tries to retrieve his crosse. (2) A2 or B1 kicks the crosse on the ground to try to gain access
to the ball.[//b] (3) A2 or B1 uses his crosse to try to gain access to the ball. RULING: If the
ball is stuck in the crosse, immediate whistle and award the ball to Team B. Otherwise:
(1) Illegal procedure for participating in the play without equipment. (2)
No foul.[/b] (3) No
foul.


Though one could argue that the ball is technically not "in" the crosse, the spirit in A.R. 44 is clearly closer to the play described than A.R. 33.

Sonny wrote:I've got nothing under both sets of rules. You can't really enforce a call like that after an extended period of time (long play).


Well, you can, and sometimes you have to, but it's going to be ugly if you do. I've never had to do it—knock on wood—but suppose A1 releases from the penalty area early and then play goes on for 2 minutes before team A scores. The table sounds a double horn and tells you that A1 left early. I think you're forced to disallow the goal by NCAA Rule 4-9-i.
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Postby laxfan25 on Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:09 pm

For NCAA, I agree that AR 44 is probably closest to the situation described - he was kicking the stick in order to play the ball, which it was covering. No foul IMM.
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Kicking the stick.

Postby TBALAX on Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:32 am

1. I'm not sure what "extended play" has to do with making the correct call. Nor could I find a reference in the rule book for calling or not calling something because of extended play. In this case the original trail knew there was a foul but didn't know what it was exactly and instead of doing something and talking it over with the R to get the right call he choose to do nothing until after the play ended which in this case resulted in a goal. After the play ended he brought it right up to the R. So now under NCAA rule 7, pg 94, Section 12 "Mistakes by Officials": its up to the R to make the right call remain unbiased and insure fair play while maintaining his professionalism and integrity. Thats unless he's a defence lawyer than the only rule that applies is he wins, hahahaha....

2. OK I'm with you on the NCAA call based on what was going on since ball was not stuck but only covered by the crosse and whether you thought B2 was kicking it to get the ball or kicking it to keep it away from A1 or both either Rule 6, AR 43 or 44 would be in effect. Judgement call...

The hard question now is what would you call if you were doing the game under NFHS rules not also being a NCAA referee? I know this is a College site but this is a question that effects both sets of rules and I would like to provide some info to my area ref's. Kicking the stick during the faceoff is addressed but not in the open field during play, Possible answer Pg. 54, Rule 5 Sec 9, Art 1. c."or any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the official". What say You?
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Re: Kicking the stick.

Postby LaxRef on Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:00 am

TBALAX wrote:The hard question now is what would you call if you were doing the game under NFHS rules not also being a NCAA referee? I know this is a College site but this is a question that effects both sets of rules and I would like to provide some info to my area ref's. Kicking the stick during the faceoff is addressed but not in the open field during play, Possible answer Pg. 54, Rule 5 Sec 9, Art 1. c."or any other act considered unsportsmanlike by the official". What say You?


The consensus with the many officials from around the country that I've talked to is to defer to NCAA rules where the NFHS rules are mute. While I think this is reasonable—if we do it this way, we get at least some measure of consistency instead of everyone coming up with their own deal—it doesn't help the people who don't know NCAA rules. The list of rule differences between NCAA and NFHS that I put together may help; this will be posted on the US Lacrosse website this week and announced in the next Stripes newsletter.
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Postby laxfan25 on Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:36 am

I agree that deferment to the NCAA book is a sound policy when the FEd book doesn't cover an item. Kicking a naked crosse should be unsportsmanlike, but kicking a loose one holding or covering the ball should be allowed in these rare instances.
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