LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

We are using Federation rules here so please use that book for official comments. A1 enters the game as the goalie at the beginning of the second half. During the process of taking stats on in the scorebook the official scorekeeper notices that A1 is not listed in the book. The scorekeeper blows a double horn at the first stoppage of play to call the referee to the table to show that A1 is not listed in the book. What is the correct action for this infraction? This was a late state playoff game.

Overall this game was one of the best officiated games all season. I am not sure anyone knew the correct ruling, but I feel they did their best job with this situation. I will congratulate the ref on being confident and firm in his ruling. It was quite convincing.

Rule 2-1: Revises the procedure for listing players in the official scorebook and states that the lineup listed must be complete and accurate at the start of the game.

Lax_Stats wrote:Rule 2-1: Revises the procedure for listing players in the official scorebook and states that the lineup listed must be complete and accurate at the start of the game.

And how exactly do you penalize a team that doesn't comply with this?

Without checking, my feeling is this is treated like an illegally marked field - there is no assessed penalty.
NFHS Book Cases;
THE FIELD
1.2 SITUATION: Officials arrive at game site and notice that the field markings (a) do not conform to the "Lacrosse Field of Play" diagram or (b) do not meet requirements as specified in the rules i.e. lines missing or are of incorrect dimensions.
RULING: Officials notify Team A's head coach. If unable to make corrections to markings or add missing lines, the game is played and the official shall notify the sponsoring authority.
I would add his name to the book and start play.

laxfan25 wrote:Without checking, my feeling is this is treated like an illegally marked field - there is no assessed penalty.
I would add his name to the book and start play.

I agree. play ball.

If the player is legal, how could you penalize a team for that paperwork oversight.

If the player is not legal, let the opposing team appeal it to the appropriate governing body/league.

Sonny wrote:

Lax_Stats wrote:Rule 2-1: Revises the procedure for listing players in the official scorebook and states that the lineup listed must be complete and accurate at the start of the game.

And how exactly do you penalize a team that doesn't comply with this?

This was a really dumb rule change this year. It does nothing but cause nit-picking trouble. In one game I heard about, the home team waited until the visiting team's best player scored, then got the officials to (incorrectly) wave off the goal because he wasn't in the scorebook. But the home team is responsible for keeping the book! How do we know the home team didn't leave him out intentionally? I'm trying to get this rule changed for next year.

Anyway, the "correct" ruling is on p. 60 Situation 2.1. It's one technical foul for however many players are added (i.e., if another bus shows up, you get one technical when the first player enters the game and nothing for the other 20 guys). Theoretically they're supposed to be added to the score book before they go on the field, but I don't see what difference that makes with regard to calling the foul.

LaxRef wrote:

Sonny wrote:

Lax_Stats wrote:Rule 2-1: Revises the procedure for listing players in the official scorebook and states that the lineup listed must be complete and accurate at the start of the game.

And how exactly do you penalize a team that doesn't comply with this?

This was a really dumb rule change this year. It does nothing but cause nit-picking trouble. In one game I heard about, the home team waited until the visiting team's best player scored, then got the officials to (incorrectly) wave off the goal because he wasn't in the scorebook. But the home team is responsible for keeping the book! How do we know the home team didn't leave him out intentionally? I'm trying to get this rule changed for next year.

Anyway, the "correct" ruling is on p. 60 Situation 2.1. It's one technical foul for however many players are added (i.e., if another bus shows up, you get one technical when the first player enters the game and nothing for the other 20 guys). Theoretically they're supposed to be added to the score book before they go on the field, but I don't see what difference that makes with regard to calling the foul.

Which is exactly why I wouldn't call anything. We aren't going to stop a live game to fill out the scorebook. The scorebook is a function of the stats staff at the table, not officiating.

Sonny wrote:Which is exactly why I wouldn't call anything. We aren't going to stop a live game to fill out the scorebook. The scorebook is a function of the stats staff at the table, not officiating.

That's clearly not entirely true. They are officials at some level: they time penalties. And the keeping of that scorebook determines whether a player fouls out (I sure don't know when a guy gets his fifth personal, although sometimes I know I've called '35 white' for a bunch of fouls).

Finally, there's no reason that the game needs to be stopped to add him to the roster. They can do that during a live ball easily enough.

But it is a dumb, dumb rule.

What I would like to see available is just a technical foul to be assessed to either team if the scorebook is not completed before the game. I've done a few high school games where the table said everything was under control before the game and then halfway through the game they're shocked to find out that they're supposed to track penalties for both teams.

My favorite is the home team scorer with the book, who only has the home team listed! Can't tell you how many times I've had to get them together with someone from the visitors to fill it all out! Scorekeeping is a lost art to be sure.
On the other hand, I have a couple teams that have created a spreadsheet form that matches the scorebook spacing for the lineup - they print it out and paste it in the book! The nice teams even print a copy to give to the other team. Sweet!

Why don't ALL of you guys just look this up in an NHFS rule book and get the answer instead of debating what MIGHT be the penalty if any?!?! Wouldn't that be a whole lot easier and make the most sense?!?!?

LaxStats wrote:Why don't ALL of you guys just look this up in an NHFS rule book and get the answer instead of debating what MIGHT be the penalty if any?.

Because my rulebook is at home.

LaxRef wrote:Anyway, the "correct" ruling is on p. 60 Situation 2.1. It's one technical foul for however many players are added (i.e., if another bus shows up, you get one technical when the first player enters the game and nothing for the other 20 guys). Theoretically they're supposed to be added to the score book before they go on the field, but I don't see what difference that makes with regard to calling the foul.

But then, because the player was on the field prior to being entered into the book, couldn't this come under a USC for a deliberate subsitution infraction (like delayed sub)?

Jolly Roger wrote:But then, because the player was on the field prior to being entered into the book, couldn't this come under a USC for a deliberate subsitution infraction (like delayed sub)?

"Coach, I don't know that it was deliberate, because for all I know he thought he was listed in the scorebook."

Besides, what advantage is gained here?

Lax_Stats wrote:Why don't ALL of you guys just look this up in an NHFS rule book and get the answer instead of debating what MIGHT be the penalty if any?!?! Wouldn't that be a whole lot easier and make the most sense?!?!?

Huh? I posted the location of the only on-point rule in the book, which doesn't exactly cover this situation.