LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

We're well into the '06 season, and it is apparent that not all members of every team have gotten the word on the new FDSW procedure concerning loose balls in the attack box. I've had several players start yelling "blow the whistle!" or they stop playing. Remember the new rule for this year!

Flag Down Slow Whistle Situations

When there is a FDSW, the offended team, if they maintain possession on the foul outside the box will continue to play, just like they always have. If possession is lost outside the box, there will be an immediate whistle.

The difference is once the ball is in the attack box, there should be no stoppage of play unless the ball leaves the box, the D gains possession, the ball goes out of bounds, a goal is scored or the offended team commits a foul. This will take some getting used to by the officials, since we're so much in the habit of whistling as soon as the ball hits the ground. (I can vouch for that fact personally!)
The other big change is that any technical foul committed by the offending team during the FDSW (with possession OR even with a loose ball) will automatically become time-serving. This is a change from the normal call on a loose ball technical. As others have noted, this is a big advantage now for the attack. The thinking behind this is that the defense, if there was a loose ball during the continuing slow whistle, would have been encouraged to simply push an attack player from the back to draw a whistle without any penalty for doing so. Now there is a significant price to pay for that violation.

There was also a clarification that was posted earlier in the week;
With no flag down, if the ball is loose in the attack box and there is a personal foul on either team, there should be an immediate whistle. If the ball is loose and there is a technical foul by either team, it is the standard play-on procedure. All of this changes of course if there IS a flag down. Penalties by the offense would kill the slow whistle, penalties by the defense become time-serving, even loose-ball technicals.

One team was contending that the play should continue on if the attacking team has possession outside the box and the foul causes the ball to come loose. This is NOT the case, as stated clearly in the rules:

Slow-Whistle Technique
SECTION 8. If a defending player commits a foul against an attacking player and an attacking player has possession of the ball, and if the act of fouling does not cause the player in possession of the ball to lose possession, the official must drop a signal flag, make the verbal signal “flag down” and withhold his whistle... All of this also changes if the foul occurs in the box. If the fouled player drops the ball, play will continue!

laxfan25 wrote:One team was contending that the play should continue on if the attacking team has possession outside the box and the foul causes the ball to come loose. This is NOT the case, as stated clearly in the rules;
Slow-Whistle Technique
SECTION 8. If a defending player commits a foul against an attacking player and an attacking player has possession of the ball, and if the act of fouling does not cause the player in possession of the ball to lose possession, the official must drop a signal flag, make the verbal signal “flag down” and withhold his whistle... All of this also changes if the foul occurs in the box. If the fouled player drops the ball, play will continue!

Yeah, except the rule is unclear because the initial clause about "if the act of fouling does not cause the player to lose possession" seems to indicate that you will blow the whistle if A1 is in the box, gets slashed, and immediately drops the ball. That's not what they want; they want play to continue in this situation.

If you compare page 82's of the 2005 and 2006 rulebooks, only then does it become clear why there is confusion, at least the instance I referred laxfan25 to in our face-to-face conversation today, when the ball is outside the attack box. In 2005 it says to blow the whistle under "h" if a loose ball results and "k" when the ball hits the ground, you'll notice that these items are deleted from the 2006 book (mine is NCAA 50111-10/05).

I swear I've brought this up with every new set of officials I've seen this year, rarely do I hear the same interpretation.

If there is another rule or memo (issued to all teams) that superseeds the slow-whistle procedure detailed in the 2006 book or another new version that US Lacrosse did not mail me, please refer me to it.

Andy Sharp wrote:If you compare page 82's of the 2005 and 2006 rulebooks, only then does it become clear why there is confusion, at least the instance I referred laxfan25 to in our face-to-face conversation today, when the ball is outside the attack box. In 2005 it says to blow the whistle under "h" if a loose ball results and "k" when the ball hits the ground, you'll notice that these items are deleted from the 2006 book (mine is NCAA 50111-10/05).

I swear I've brought this up with every new set of officials I've seen this year, rarely do I hear the same interpretation.

If there is another rule or memo (issued to all teams) that superseeds the slow-whistle procedure detailed in the 2006 book or another new version that US Lacrosse did not mail me, please refer me to it.

2/17 COC Memo:

Page 82 AR 29
There has been some confusion about AR 29 on page 82. The intent of the AR is this: If a player is fouled outside of the attack area and he throws a bounce pass which hits the ground OUTSIDE of the attack area, the slow whistle is over. If the bounce pass lands INSIDE the attack area, play continues.

3/29 COC Memo:

here appears to be an inconsistency in a rule interpretation that needs to be addressed. A1 has possession of the ball in Team A's offensive goal box area. The ball becomes loose and B1 slashes A1 or any player on Team B commits a personal foul against any player on team A while the ball is loose. An immediate whistle is blown stopping play and the penalty is enforced. Same stuation and B1 pushes or commits any technical foul against any player on team A. The official signals "Play On" and if Team A regains possession of the ball the play on is over. A subsequent personal foul by Team B while the ball is in A's possession is a flag down. While the ball is loose during the "Play On" and there is a personal foul against Team A, the whistle is blown immediately and the personal foul is enforced.

But really, some of this stuff was discussed at the COC meeting at the convention and not distributed. The intent--and I agree it's not clear--is that if the ball becomes loose outside the box, you blow the whistle, but inside the box you let play continue.

Let me state that I do not envy MDIA officials, keeping these rules straight is difficult, especially if you officiate under both NFHS and NCAA rules. As a men's club player, Div B coach, hs official, ms official, I have my own problems keeping track of the ever evolving rules and do not regret waiting till later to officiate hs/ms this spring. Maybe this is simply my own perceived complexity, I've been incorrect many times before.

LaxRef, I think you as well are confused as to what I am suggesting. Maybe it's a different topic, but I think it's just another way of looking at page 82, more towards what's missing.

I am not referring to the attack area or the shaded area or bounce passes.

Here is what it says:

Slow-Whistle Technique
SECTION 8. If a defending player commits a foul against an attacking player and an attacking player has possession of the ball, and if the act of fouling does not cause the player in possession of the ball to lose possession, the official must drop a signal flag, make the verbal signal “flag down” and withhold his whistle until:
a. A goal is scored by the attacking team.
b. The ball goes out of bounds.
c. A player on the defending team gains possession of the ball.
d. The ball enters the goal area or is in the goal area at the time the foul occurs and thereafter moves out of the goal area.
e. A player loses any of the required equipment in a scrimmage area, and
the official is required under the rules to blow the whistle.
f. A player on the attacking team commits a foul.
g. The ball is in the defensive half of the field, and the team in possession
fails to clear the ball.
The slow whistle shall be used whether the foul is committed against the player in possession of the ball or some other member of the attacking team.

In a situation where a flag is down, and once possession is established in the attack area, play shall not be stopped unless the ball leaves the attack area, a whistle is blown, or a change of possession occurs.

In this situation, once the ball enters the attack area, all technical fouls (including loose ball technical fouls) against the defensive team are time serving.

What is missing from the page that can be found in the 2005 rulebook are:

h. A loose ball results.
k. When the ball hits the ground (exept on a shot)

Andy Sharp wrote:Let me state that I do not envy MDIA officials, keeping these rules straight is difficult, especially if you officiate under both NFHS and NCAA rules. As a men's club player, Div B coach, hs official, ms official, I have my own problems keeping track of the ever evolving rules and do not regret waiting till later to officiate hs/ms this spring. Maybe this is simply my own perceived complexity, I've been incorrect many times before.

LaxRef, I think you as well are confused as to what I am suggesting. Maybe it's a different topic, but I think it's just another way of looking at page 82, more towards what's missing.

I think I get you. You were asking if you'd missed any memos, so I posted all of the relevant ones.

Andy Sharp wrote:I am not referring to the attack area or the shaded area or bounce passes.

Here is what it says:

Slow-Whistle Technique
SECTION 8. If a defending player commits a foul against an attacking player and an attacking player has possession of the ball, and if the act of fouling does not cause the player in possession of the ball to lose possession, the official must drop a signal flag, make the verbal signal “flag down” and withhold his whistle until:
a. A goal is scored by the attacking team.
b. The ball goes out of bounds.
c. A player on the defending team gains possession of the ball.
d. The ball enters the goal area or is in the goal area at the time the foul occurs and thereafter moves out of the goal area.
e. A player loses any of the required equipment in a scrimmage area, and
the official is required under the rules to blow the whistle.
f. A player on the attacking team commits a foul.
g. The ball is in the defensive half of the field, and the team in possession
fails to clear the ball.
The slow whistle shall be used whether the foul is committed against the player in possession of the ball or some other member of the attacking team.

In a situation where a flag is down, and once possession is established in the attack area, play shall not be stopped unless the ball leaves the attack area, a whistle is blown, or a change of possession occurs.

In this situation, once the ball enters the attack area, all technical fouls (including loose ball technical fouls) against the defensive team are time serving.

What is missing from the page that can be found in the 2005 rulebook are:

h. A loose ball results.
k. When the ball hits the ground (exept on a shot)

I'm sure they intentionally deleted h. because they didn't want the whistle blown if the ball was loose, only if it was loose outside the attack area. But they forgot to say explicitly that if the ball becomes loose outside the attack area that the play should be killed.

I never understood why we had h. and k. anyway, since they could have covered both with k. In fact, by the definition of a loose ball given in the rules (a ball not in player possession), any ball in flight is a loose ball and so h. tells you to blow the whistle immediately anytime someone shoots or pases.

I'll put all this on my list of stuff to submit for next year.

LaxRef wrote:I'm sure they intentionally deleted h. because they didn't want the whistle blown if the ball was loose, only if it was loose outside the attack area. But they forgot to say explicitly that if the ball becomes loose outside the attack area that the play should be killed.

I never understood why we had h. and k. anyway, since they could have covered both with k. In fact, by the definition of a loose ball given in the rules (a ball not in player possession), any ball in flight is a loose ball and so h. tells you to blow the whistle immediately anytime someone shoots or pases.

I'll put all this on my list of stuff to submit for next year.

k. is gone, what is there left to suggest the intent of the rulebook was to blow the whistle on loss of possession, they also removed:

e. A shot is taken that does not result in a goal

Each of these deletions suggest to me that ground balls not caused by the penalty are not cause for a whistle.

The lone indicator left to suggest that a whistle needs to be blown on a ground ball during a flag down comes from the vague reference in the 2/17 memo and even that has an exception.