LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

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Team A player has Brine E3 stick head (completely unaltered) was ruled illegal for not being 10" in length. The 2006 Men's NCAA Rulebook that is used to make that judgement uses the following diagram (and this is taken directly from the rulebook) to guide stick checks.



Question - Is the ball stop part of the 10" length required for a stick head check?

It is a note of some interest that the ballstop that comes with a Brine E3 stick head says "Meets All NCAA Specs."

I am not asking whether or not the ball stop is part of the stick head check, I am saying that according to that diagram it is not.

The ball stop is NOT part of this measurement!!! To better illustrate how the measurement is done the ref can pretend there is no ball stop altogether! You measure from the top of the head down to the plastic under the ball stop where the adhesive is holding the ball stop to the throat of the head.

As far as the ball stop saying it meets NCAA standards, well you cant always believe what manufacturers choose to put on their equipment. For example, if you saw a sign on top of the empire state building that read "jumping off this building wont kill you" would you believe that??

Band wrote:I am not asking whether or not the ball stop is part of the stick head check, I am saying that according to that diagram it is not.

It sounds to me like you already have your mind made up and you don't need or want a rules intrepretation from an official... How do you know that the officials didn't rule the stick illegal from top to bottom as illustrated in the diagram?

Lax_Stats wrote:The ball stop is NOT part of this measurement!!! To better illustrate how the measurement is done the ref can pretend there is no ball stop altogether! You measure from the top of the head down to the plastic under the ball stop where the adhesive is holding the ball stop to the throat of the head.

For NCAA lacrosse. For NFHS lacrosse, you measure to the furthest exposed edge of the stop (not unexposed, like you do in NCAA lacrosse). Why? Who knows.

This means a crosse which is legal for NCAA play may be illegal for NFHS play.

Just to add in... I have a completely unaltered Gait Torque, that do to faceoffs/groundballs/and big checks from slashing d-poles, is no where near legal...

Sticks are mass produced, nothing is as perfect as the origional, and every stick can be illegal... I've even seen sticks too long from the factory, its the risk you run when you're pushing the limit of legality.

Kyle Berggren wrote:Just to add in... I have a completely unaltered Gait Torque, that do to faceoffs/groundballs/and big checks from slashing d-poles, is no where near legal...

Sticks are mass produced, nothing is as perfect as the origional, and every stick can be illegal... I've even seen sticks too long from the factory, its the risk you run when you're pushing the limit of legality.

The funny thing is, the head coach certifies before each game that all of his players have equipment. Presumably, that means that the coach knows it's legal, and the onlly way he could know that is to have inspected it. Yet when a stick is ruled illegal, the coach always seems surprised and upset! I wonder why that is . . . .

I am one of those lieing coaches, and I'm furious when it happens... but I'm more upset with the player, its not your fault the ball is stuck in the throat, the stick is too long, or the pocket is too deep... I blame a lot of things on you zebras (missing offsides), and I absolutely hold you accountable for doing your job (you get $2/minute! on that field), but that's our problem not yours.

Kyle Berggren wrote:I am one of those lieing coaches, and I'm furious when it happens... but I'm more upset with the player, its not your fault the ball is stuck in the throat, the stick is too long, or the pocket is too deep... I blame a lot of things on you zebras (missing offsides), and I absolutely hold you accountable for doing your job (you get $2/minute! on that field), but that's our problem not yours.

Yeah, but if you count the dead-ball time, the pre-game time, the time spent driving to and from the game, the time spent washing our gear and polishing shoes, the time in training classes, the time spent studying rules and mechanics, etc., it comes out to about minimum wage! Well, not quite, but it's nowhere near $120/hr, and a of of it is supply and demand anyway.

Now if you call me at 1-900-HOT-ZEBRA, then it's close to $2/minute.

LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

MarkAnderson wrote:LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

We wouldn't play the game unless the coach in question affirms that all of his players are "legally equipped."

MarkAnderson wrote:LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

"Coach, we can't start the game until you can certify that all of your players are legally equipped by rule. If you need to go check some players before you can certify we can come back in a few minutes, but if that delays the start of the game you'll be guilty of illegal procedure and we'll have to award possession to the opponents."

LaxRef wrote:

MarkAnderson wrote:LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

"Coach, we can't start the game until you can certify that all of your players are legally equipped by rule. If you need to go check some players before you can certify we can come back in a few minutes, but if that delays the start of the game you'll be guilty of illegal procedure and we'll have to award possession to the opponents."

And, if the game continues to be delayed, you then flag the coach for a 2nd delay of game penalty since the opposing team has now been awarded possession. If a 3rd delay of game should occur at any point in the game (assuming you finally got the game started) then you could impose an USC for repeatedly committing the same technical foul.

Lax_Stats wrote:

LaxRef wrote:

MarkAnderson wrote:LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

"Coach, we can't start the game until you can certify that all of your players are legally equipped by rule. If you need to go check some players before you can certify we can come back in a few minutes, but if that delays the start of the game you'll be guilty of illegal procedure and we'll have to award possession to the opponents."

And, if the game continues to be delayed, you then flag the coach for a 2nd delay of game penalty since the opposing team has now been awarded possession. If a 3rd delay of game should occur at any point in the game (assuming you finally got the game started) then you could impose un USC for repeatedly committing the same technical foul.

I know we can go to the USC for repeated technical fouls. I've thought about it once or twice. But have you ever done it?

So is the factory (unaltered) Brine E3 stick illegal for play or is it that some guy on "Team A" is using an E3 that has been bent and hit so much that it has worked it's way illegal?

LaxRef wrote:

Lax_Stats wrote:

LaxRef wrote:

MarkAnderson wrote:LaxRef,

On a side note what excalty would you do when you ask the coach if all of his players are properly equipped and he says "Oh no I sure they are not, especially Johnny his stick is never legal"

"Coach, we can't start the game until you can certify that all of your players are legally equipped by rule. If you need to go check some players before you can certify we can come back in a few minutes, but if that delays the start of the game you'll be guilty of illegal procedure and we'll have to award possession to the opponents."

And, if the game continues to be delayed, you then flag the coach for a 2nd delay of game penalty since the opposing team has now been awarded possession. If a 3rd delay of game should occur at any point in the game (assuming you finally got the game started) then you could impose un USC for repeatedly committing the same technical foul.

I know we can go to the USC for repeated technical fouls. I've thought about it once or twice. But have you ever done it?

yes, only once tho. I had a player about 3 years ago who just couldn't get it through his head that you cant push a man in the back, and especially when the man has possession of the ball. On his 3rd push with possession, I up the foul from a push to an USC for repeatedly committing the same technical foul. That solved the problem.