How do I stick check?

[Brendan Barry]

I've been playing for 8 years and have had my stick checked alot. What do the rules say about a stick check. The only consistant thing I see measuring width, length and depth of the pocket.

However, I've been called for it not rolling out the side, not rolling out the botton, not coming out (in a face of position), and all other sorts of things. If refs can't stay consistant in their checks, how are we supposed to know whats legal?

As for the face of check, I had a stick that was wide enough in the sense of plastic, but the sidewalls were withholding the ball from freely coming out.

Im sure most players have played with a stick that was legal in one game and then illegal in another.

[laxfan25]

Stick length - 40 - 42" or 52" to 72". In the past, short sticks were the norm for illegal sticks, not so much anymore.
Width of the head - minimum of 6.5" at widest point - this is now one of the most common violations.
The other is that with the narrow throats being designed into sticks, they will often fail the test for having the ball come out of the pocket. Basically I put the ball in the pcoket, maybe roll it back and forth a couple times and then hold it up vertical. The stick is then tilted forward, and I wat to see it come out before I get the stick to horizontal. If it doesn't, you've got a 3 min NR. (There is no specific angle between verical and horizontal that they define for when the ball has to come out - I use the most lenient, which is 90 degrees from vertical.
The narrow throats also cause issues with faceoffs, since the ball can easily get trapped in the back when you have two layers of mesh along witht he ball stop and head holding it in. Automatic loss of ball, but the stick is not necessarily "illegal".
Yes, sticks can vary from game to game - facing off, jamming it in the ground on ground balls, etc., all can deform the head.
Recommendation - the refs are always there before the game to do a nice courtesy stick check for you. NOTE! Passing a pre-game check DOES NOT mean it will pass during the game, (sticks can deform in play, and surprisingly, I've had players have me test one stick and then they play with another - go figure!) but at least you know you're OK at the start.

[grinderpete]

maybe roll it back and forth a couple times and then hold it up vertical.

I thought that you were not allowed to do this. That you had to drop it in, and that was all, no rolling it around, bouncing it or pushing it down.

[Jolly Roger]

maybe roll it back and forth a couple times and then hold it up vertical.

I thought that you were not allowed to do this. That you had to drop it in, and that was all, no rolling it around, bouncing it or pushing it down.

You're not allowed to push it in when checking for pocket depth. When checking for ball release, it's good practice to mimic the ball behaving as though the stick in use.

[laxfan25]

Thanks JR. You're correct, you don't push the ball down when checking the depth, but you can toss it lightly into the pocket when checking to see if it releases. I certainly don't jam it into the bottom of the pocket.
Realize that we're not trying to "trap" players, just make sure everyone is playing fairly. After all, an illegal stick call is kind of like the death penalty - 3 min non-releaseable - so it's one that is not taken lightly.
That said, it's amazing to me how many illegal sticks we find, especially when we're only checking four sticks each game! I often get the complaint - "but I bought it that way!" Then ask for your money back. The stick manufacturers don't help as they continue to push the limits of the rules, especially with the narrowness of the throat in some sticks.
As I said, take advantage of the free checks being offered before every game - we'll let you know if you're close to having a problem.

[Brendan Barry]

I spoke with two refs this past weekend and asked them the same questions. They told me that they can only check the depth of the pocket, the lengths, and to see if it comes out the bottom by means of rolling (they told me that there is no angle that the ball has to come out between completely verticle and completely horizontal). If this is true, I have spent way to much time in the penalty box for stupid calls.

Once again, I really think all refs need to have ONE, STANDARD WAY of checking sticks. Not their own, personal way. If a player is good, it doesnt matter what his stick is like IMO.

[laxfan25]

I spoke with two refs this past weekend and asked them the same questions. They told me that they can only check the depth of the pocket, the lengths, and to see if it comes out the bottom by means of rolling (they told me that there is no angle that the ball has to come out between completely verticle and completely horizontal). If this is true, I have spent way to much time in the penalty box for stupid calls.

Once again, I really think all refs need to have ONE, STANDARD WAY of checking sticks. Not their own, personal way. If a player is good, it doesnt matter what his stick is like IMO.

I think your best solution is to go to the refs BEFORE your game and have them check your stick. That way you'll know how they're calling it, and you'll be able to take corrective action if needed (or argue your case, but not recommended). You are correct, there are variances between officials (but WAY less than there used to be!). You are also incorrect though, a player who appears good because he's using an illegal stick DOES matter - ask any of his opponents!

[LaxRef]

I spoke with two refs this past weekend and asked them the same questions. They told me that they can only check the depth of the pocket, the lengths, and to see if it comes out the bottom by means of rolling (they told me that there is no angle that the ball has to come out between completely verticle and completely horizontal). If this is true, I have spent way to much time in the penalty box for stupid calls.

Once again, I really think all refs need to have ONE, STANDARD WAY of checking sticks. Not their own, personal way. If a player is good, it doesnt matter what his stick is like IMO.

Well, it was really open to interpretation before, so I suggested the inclusion of the following:

A.R. 6: During the crosse inspection, the officials discover that the ball does not roll freely from the pocket, with the ball either remaining in the pocket when the head is rotated toward the ground and held horizontally or the ball sticking momentarily before rolling out. RULING: 3:00 non-releasable penalty and the stick is removed from the game whether the ball is being held by the head or by the stringing. (Exception: If the pocket is too deep and the officials feel that the pocket depth is the reason the ball will not release, a 1:00 nonreleasable penalty may be assessed and the crosse may return if adjusted.)

and they included it. Before, it was unclear exatly when the ball was supposed to roll out. Of course, there are other things in the rulebook about stick requirements that we don't check for some reason (when was the last time you saw an official do the table test?). It would be nice to get this cleaned up.

[Lax_Stats]

Keep in mind when it comes to stick checks that you are dealing with the referee's judgement and interpretation of the rules for what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to the crosse they are checking. You are also dealing with the situation in the game. Also, a stick that was legal when the game started may have become illegal through play of the game. Information on an illegal crosse can be found on page 58 of the 2006 NCAA mens lacrosse rule book. Information on the mechanics a referee uses to check a crosse can be found on pages 94 & 95 as well. A table check will most likely only be done if it appears a shaft has been "cambered", is severely bent through play of game, or the head appears to be extremely "offset". Also, you are less likely to get a crosse called as illegal for a "borderline" violation if a team is getting the pants beat off them and more likely to get the "borderline" violation called if you are beating the pants off your opponent. Other factors might include such things as how big the game is. A violation called during the regular season may or may not be called during the national championship game depending on the severity of the violation. The same applies to a game that has gone into overtime. Another factor is the experience of the referee doing the stick check and his understanding of what makes a crosse illegal and the game situation that crosse is in. Your best bet is to read the rule book throughly every year since rules do change, check any sticks you buy before you use them in a game, and have your stick checked by the officiating crew prior to each game.

[LaxRef]

Keep in mind when it comes to stick checks that you are dealing with the referee's judgement and interpretation of the rules for what is legal and what is not legal when it comes to the crosse they are checking. You are also dealing with the situation in the game. Also, a stick that was legal when the game started may have become illegal through play of the game. Information on an illegal crosse can be found on page 58 of the 2006 NCAA mens lacrosse rule book. Information on the mechanics a referee uses to check a crosse can be found on pages 94 & 95 as well. A table check will most likely only be done if it appears a shaft has been "cambered", is severely bent through play of game, or the head appears to be extremely "offset". Also, you are less likely to get a crosse called as illegal for a "borderline" violation if a team is getting the pants beat off them and more likely to get the "borderline" violation called if you are beating the pants off your opponent. Other factors might include such things as how big the game is. A violation called during the regular season may or may not be called during the national championship game depending on the severity of the violation. The same applies to a game that has gone into overtime. Another factor is the experience of the referee doing the stick check and his understanding of what makes a crosse illegal and the game situation that crosse is in. Your best bet is to read the rule book throughly every year since rules do change, check any sticks you buy before you use them in a game, and have your stick checked by the officiating crew prior to each game.

This is all good advice. However, I think the main objection is that unless the rules spell out exactly what we're supposed to do and how we're supposed to do it, and unless we all do it uniformly, there will always be cases where a stick is ruled illegal by one official in one game but legal by a different official in a different game.

There's a rule that "The stop shall be constructed so that the ball shall touch the stop." For years, I had absolutely no idea what that meant. Someone finally explained to me that it means when you hold the crosse verticaly with the ball in it, the balll should be touching the stop, not sagging behind it in the pocket. Does anyone make this call? There's probably somebody who does, and probably a lot of head scratching when the call gets made.

The best advice so far is to get your crosse inspected by the officials before the game. But even that can fail, since the umpire might check it and say it's legal (at that moment) but during the game the referee might check it and overrule the umpire on something.

[Lax_Stats]

That is why we record the numbers of the players whose sticks we check before the game. If an issue does come up, we have recorded any pregame issues and can discuss this with the referee who makes the final call.

[Rob Graff]

Lax Stats- that's a great idea, and while not dispositive if a stick is checked, is certainly persusive. We're going to do that now.

Rob

[Lax_Stats]

What part did you feel was a great idea?

[laxfan25]

Speaking from experience, I agree that it is not dispositive Coach! The problem is unless you are putting some kind of stamp on the stick, there is no way for the official or coach to know that the stick being checked in a game is the the same one that was checked pre-game.
Last year in the HS playoffs, I noticed for the first time that a certain player (leading scorer and AA) came out with two sticks. In previous games he always had me check his stick before the game, was always legal, and frequently did not get checked in the game. After this observation, I decided to check his stick at the 3rd Qtr break. Funny, but the stick before the game was at least 6.75", and the one now was way below 6.5". As I walked the stick to the bench, the player was complaining loudly "You checked it before the game!!" I thought to myself, "I checked a stick before the game". The 3 goals that were scored in the resulting penalty were the difference in a 1-goal loss.
So besides the changes that can happen during play of the game, you also have the possibility of sticks being exchanged.

[Lax_Stats]

As long as the game is played, players will always look for new ways to gain an advantage, be it legal or illegal. That is why the rules for stick checks have changed over the years. Manufacturers want you to buy their equipment as well, so they will keep trying to develop new products such as stick heads, pockets, etc to give the player better ball handling skills or other advantages. If a ball doesn't seem to be coming out of a players stick very easily, I suggest the coach call for a stick check before he comes off the field the next time. If a player is racking up a lot of goals, I suggest the crew get his stick for the mandatory check in between 1st and 2nd or 3rd and 4th quarters. It is not uncommon at all for a player to have an official check one stick and play with another. I saw a situation last year where a player had his stick checked before a game and it was perfectly legal. He scored a bunch of goals and his stick was checked between the 3rd & 4th periods and found to have 3 different violations. Head too narrow, pocket too deep, bottle cap on end. His coached screamed that his stick had been checked before the game... and I'm sure one of his sticks had been. Funny thing is, his stick had been illegal in the previous 2 games as well.