LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

US Lacrosse is finally making some headway in gettting men's club teams to adopt a uniform set of rules.

I apologize for the longish post but thought it might be an interesting discussion.

My first observation: do you REALLY think we can enforce the obscene language provision at the men's club level???

Enjoy

--Matt

US LACROSSE MEN’S DIVISION POST-COLLEGIATE CLUB COUNCIL
RECOMMENDED RULES FOR 2005
NCAA rules and interpretations are used unless they are specifically modified in these rules. Rule and section numbers herein are the same as those in the NCAA rule book. Individual leagues can modify certain aspects of these rules. Uniform specifications and player equipment can be modified as long as the changes are sticter in content, not weaker. Time factors, the number of long sticks, and the number of timeouts can also be changed

POINTS OF EMPHASIS:
1. Officials are to use the field mechanics and the positioning technique set forth by the US Lacrosse
Men’s Division Officials Council in the Men’s Lacrosse Officials Mechanics Manual.
2. An official who fails to adhere to #1 or who does not wear the proscribed uniform of his assigning association is subject to having his league game assignments taken away.
3. When obscene language is penalized, a MINIMUM of two minutes is to be assessed. NCAA
mechanics for determining obscene language shall be used.
4. Use of the Conduct Foul (Rule 6 - Section 7), especially subparagraph c, is encouraged.
5. STRICTLY ENFORCE THE DELAY OF GAME PENALTY when there are no “ball retrievers”.
See Rule 6 - Section 6 - paragraph f-7. There must be four balls on the end line prior to each half.

RULE 1
PLAYING FIELD (2): Fields may be 53 to 60 yards wide. Limit lines and the 4 inch square at the center of
the field are not required. Lines on the sides of the attack areas are required, but do not have to be solid.
All other lines and dimensions must be as stated in the NCAA rules unless the home team has a written
waiver from the league. If there is no written waiver, the appropriate NCAA procedures and penalties are
to be applied.

GOALS(3) & NETS(5): NCAA rules as to the color, and the size and shape of the pipes used in the
construction of goals shall not apply. Both nets do not have to be the same color or a solid color.

CONES & PYLONS(15): These are not required, but are strongly recommended.

BALL RETRIEVERS(16): They are not mandatory, but every effort should be made to provide them.
If they are not provided, an adequate supply of balls(4) must be placed at each end line. When a quick
whistle is not possible because balls are not available or not on the end lines, a delay of game penalty
MUST be assessed and the CLOCK MUST BE STOPPED until a team is in possession of the ball.

CROSSE DIMENSIONS(17): Sticks that are between 42 and 52 inches in length are legal. The
head of the stick at it’s widest shall not be less than 6 1/4 inches.

HELMET, FACE MASK, & MOUTHPIECE(20): Helmets do not have to be the same dominant team
color or colors. NOCSAE approved lacrosse helmets are required. Unless an indoor lacrosse helmet is
NOCSAE approved (must have a warning label), it is not legal. Mouthpieces are not required, but are
strongly recommended.

PERSONAL EQUIPMENT(21): The home team has the choice of jersey color. Sweat pants and garments
worn under jerseys or shorts do not have to be white, gray, or the same color. Shoulder pads and arm
pads are not required, but are strongly recommended. Although shoulder pads are not required, they cannot be altered. Gloves do not have to be the same color and can have the palms cut out. The manner in which gloves can be altered is described in Rule 5 - Section 6 of these rules.

COACHES CERTIFICATION(21): This rule is not used.

GAME ADMINISTRATION-TIMERS HORN(25): A horn is not required. DPM 1/22/05

RULE 2
CROSSE RESTRICTIONS(1): There is no limit as to the number of sticks over 52 inches in length
that can be on the field at the same time.
RULE 3
LENGTH OF GAME(1) & SUDDEN VICTORY OVERTIME(5): Regulation periods are 20 minutes
each and sudden victory overtimes 4 minutes. Running time is used. The clock does not stop after a goal
is scored. The clock MUST stop when there is an undue delay in retrieving an out of bunds ball. The
clock shall also stop during team and official time-outs, and during all stoppages of play during the last
three minutes of the fourth period (this includes when goals are scored during that time).
NOTE: Paragraph f-3 in Section 6 of Rule 6 must be strictly enforced. This pertains to the time which
elapses after the scoring of a goal. Officials are to wear timers (beepers) to enforce this rule.

AUTOMATIC STALL WARNING AT THE END OF THE FOURTH PERIOD(4): This rule states that
the warning is given after the ball is brought into the attack area. A team does not have to “get it in”
unless they are stalling as stated in the ADVANCING THE BALL section in Rule 4 of these rules.

If the offense is being played closely, it is conceivable that they could keep the ball out of the attack area
during the entire last two minutes of the fourth period. The attack area is the NCAA “box” as it is defined
in Rule 1 - Section 6. IT IS NOT SIDE LINE TO SIDE LINE.

FORFEITED GAME vs NO CONTEST(8): Each league shall decide the status of these games.

RULE 4
FACING OFF(2): The new NCAA rule as to the distance between sticks and the ball shall not be used.
The distance between sticks used in prior years shall be used. All other aspects of this rule are used.

FREE PLAY(5-a) & RESTART(25): A quick whistle is used, except when the goalie legitimately
chases a shot and when a served time penalty is assessed. The five second restart count for the goalie
in AR 89 on page 48 is not applied unless the goalie has legitimately chased a shot.

In the penalty situation, play shall start as soon as the official has completed signaling the foul to the
scorers table area and the ball is set 20 yards from the goal. If there is a free clear, play shall start as
soon as the foul is signaled to the scorers table and the player with the ball is at the center line.

ADVANCING THE BALL(14 & 15): These rules are not used. But, if team is not making an attempt to advance the ball out of their defensive half of the field, or into the attack area, they shall be warned to “clear the ball” if clearing or “get it in” if they they have the ball over the center line. Once the ball is in the attack area after the “get it in” warning, it must stay in as per Section 11-a(2) of Rule 6. A team with fewer players than its opponent, or being played closely by the defense, shall not receive a stall warning.

GOAL-CREASE PROHIBITIONS(20): The NCAA “dive rule” is not used. A goal shall be allowed if a
player enters the crease after the ball crosses the goal line. A goal shall be disallowed only when a player
enters the crease before the ball has crossed the goal line.

SUBSTITUTION(22 & 24): A horn is not used. All substitutions during live play shall be on the fly
through the special substitution area as per Section 24. Following the scoring of a goal, players
may leave and enter the field through the bench area.

TEAM TIME-OUTS(28): During live play the team in possession of the ball can call a time-out in both the
defensive and offensive half of the field. The player in possession of the ball does not have to be in contact
with the ground when the time-out is called. DPM 1/22/05

Rule 4 continued:

ILLEGAL EQUIPMENT-HEAD COACHES REQUEST(29): A head coach can request a stick check,
but not a personal equipment check. During a stick check officials are not to check personal equipment.
This does not preclude officials from taking action if they happen to observe illegal equipment.

Officials are to conduct the “random stick check” as it is described in this section. Teams cannot
meet prior to the game and decide to have the officials not use this rule.

RULE 5
USE OF ILLEGAL EQUIPMENT(6): Palms can be cut out of gloves. The palm side must cover the
fingers from the first joint above the palm to the top of each finger. Illegal gloves are to be penalized
as per NCAA rules.

Although the wearing of shoulder pads is not required(see Rule 1 – Section 21 of these rules), if they are
worn, they cannot be altered. If they are altered, they are illegal.

UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT(10): In addition to the “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” fouls listed in
Rule 5-Section 10 of the NCAA Rule Book, the following special conditions shall apply:

RACIAL EPITHETS & REMARKS: A player or anyone officially connected to a team who uses
a racial epithet or makes a racial remark shall receive a three minute unsportsmanlike conduct
penalty and shall be expelled from the game.

OBSCENE LANGUAGE: A minimum of two minutes is to be assessed for obscene language.

MALIGNING AN OFFICIAL: Anyone officially connected with a team or any player who maligns
an official, shall receive an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. If the same person commits a second
maligning foul he shall be expelled from the game. In the event that penalty time has not started
on the first foul, additional penalty time shall not be assessed, only the expulsion

NOTE: Penalty time for all of the above “special conditions” is non-releasable.

TOBACCO(14): This rule is not used.


RULE 7
PLAYER OUT ON A PENALTY(1-b): After a penalized player has reported to the penalty area he
can be substituted for at any time, but he cannot reenter the game until his penalty time expires.

PENALTY TIME(2): Penalty time shall not start until the penalized player reports to the penalty area
and the whistle has blown to restart play. Thereafter, the penalty clock and the game clock shall run
concurrently.

Goalies do not serve penalty time unless the time for a single foul is two or more minutes. The In-home
serves the penalty time, but the goalies number is recorded. A goalie is subject to fouling out as per
Rule 5 - section 11, and to expulsion as per section 13 or the other expulsion rules in these modifications.

NUMBER OF PLAYERS SERVING PENALTY TIME(2-f): This rule is not used

DPM 1/22/05.



The rules in this section are suggested. Each league can adopt their own procedures and penalties for the situations listed below. Leagues should determine the person or persons in their organization who should be notified when the situations occur.

MISCELLANEOUS

INCIDENTS WITH OFFICIALS: In order for a league to take action when an incident occurs, the
officials assigned to the game and the assignors must adhere to the procedures and time limits set
forth in this section.

If an official is touched during or after a game, or is verbally abused after a game, by a player or
anyone officially connected to a league team, the official must send a written report or e-mail to his
assignor. The report must be postmarked or time stamped within 48 hours of the incident. Within 48
hours after the assignor receives the report, he must forward it to the league. The league will conduct an
investigation. The findings and any action to be taken will be reported to the official, his assignor, and the
team representative of the person involved. The team representative has the responsibility of notifying the person from his team who was involved.

The league must also notify the opposing teams that have games scheduled in which the suspended
player will not be eligible to play.

EXPULSION FROM A GAME: Anyone who is expelled from a game for using racial epithets, making
racial remarks, maligning an official, or violating the conditions in Section 13 of Rule 5, will not be eligible to play in the next game that his team plays that counts towards a playoff berth, or a playoff game, whichever comes first. If there are no games remaining in the season, the penalty shall carry over to the next season in which that person participates in the league.

A player who has already been expelled from a game and violates any of the expulsion situations in the
preceding paragraph is subject to being declared ineligible for more than one game.

When any expulsion occurs, the referee must notify his assignor within 48 hours of the occurrence. The
assignor then notifies the person indicated by a league within 48 hours after receiving the report.

The league should notify the team representative of the expelled player that is ineligible and the opposing
teams that have games scheduled in which the suspended player will not be eligible.

USE OF INELIGIBLE OR ILLEGAL PLAYERS: A team whose opponent has used an ineligible or
illegal player should report the incident to the league. This must be done within 48 hours
after learning of the violation. The league shall make all decisions as to any disciplinary action that
might be taken.

QUESTIONS CONCERNING THESE RULES, AND PROBLEMS WITH OFFICIALS: When a team
thinks that a situation has occurred where an official should be disciplined, the incident must be reported
in writing to the league within 48 hours after it occurred.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

This space can be used to list the contact information for the persons in the league who are to be notified
when any of the above situations occur.
DPM 1/22/05

mnref wrote:My first observation: do you REALLY think we can enforce the obscene language provision at the men's club level???

No. Ball retrievers for a club game is a pipe dream too.

Sonny wrote:

mnref wrote:My first observation: do you REALLY think we can enforce the obscene language provision at the men's club level???

No. Ball retrievers for a club game is a pipe dream too.

There's ton's of ball retrievers at club games. You just have to stop and get one ball on your way back from the cooler you have in your trunk.

There are quite few variations from the NCAA. If a ref is going to do these games using these rules they should prepare well.
Things that stand out:

Sticks - anything from 40 - 72 is legal. Unlimited long sticks. Head can be as narrow as 6 1/4. Coaches request for check covers stick only.

Equipment - shoulder and arm pads not required (but can't be altered if used). Gloves can have the palms cut out up to the first joint.

No counts.

On penalties they tell when to restart play, but they don't clarify when the clock should start on the penalty time. When the whistle blows for the restart? That would be my assumption and ruling without further guidance.

No dive rule.

Smoking and chewing tobacco are allowed on the field and the sidelines. What a picture!

That's just my quick review here at my desk.

These rules also keep referencing the league. Most of the club lacrosse is very loosely organized. I don't see how enforcement of these rules will occur without appropriate oversight.

Sonny wrote:

mnref wrote:My first observation: do you REALLY think we can enforce the obscene language provision at the men's club level???

No. Ball retrievers for a club game is a pipe dream too.

It doesn't say you need them. It just says if you don't have them you'd better have balls on the endline or you get a delay of game call. That seems very reasonable to me, especially since the games are played with running time.

And two minutes for language in Men's Club ball? Why would the penalty be harsher in an area which has historically had no penalty at all for language? Are they trying to guarantee that the officials never "hear" the language? I think most teams will agree to bypass this clause.

In regards to smoking on the field, I played in a tournament in Chicago a few septembers ago, and one of the defensemen for the NYPD team played with a lit cigar for the entire game. So it happens.

There's ton's of ball retrievers at club games. You just have to stop and get one ball on your way back from the cooler you have in your trunk.

What is the need for keeping the cooler in the trunk? I will admit to just glancing at the rules, but I did not see anything addressing alcohol on the field. In fact just weigh down the back of the goal with a keg.

I follow the MDIA forum regularly including the new officiating addition. From my perspective on the MDOC (Mens Division Officials Council) Board, let me add some information regarding the club rules that surfaced on the forum - and compliments to my friend in Minnesota for beginning this discussion.

There is a Club Council as part of USLacrosse. To date, they have not achieved the goal of uniting all (or even most) of the club leagues across the US. Their President, Harry Mazaheri is active and has taken aim to set up a national club tournament as one of his leading goals. One piece of the puzzle is to work out (internally and with the referees) a common set of club rules. At present, the MDOC President appointed Steve Walker as the chair of the committee coordinating services to the clubs. To the best of my knowledge, Steve is the only one on the committee. He was formerly the head of the ALL (American Lacrosse League formerly the CALL - Central Atlantic Lacrosse League) when he lived in New York and now has moved to California.

What has been advanced as a proposal is the current rules for the ALL. Dave Miller (lives north of NYC) has been writing these for years. Through the years, Dave has attempted to address problems that he has seen in that League and this leads us to where we are with this proposal.

As an officer of the MDOC I state that to the best of my recollection this proposal has not been acted on, either by the MDOC or by USL. It may be on the agenda for the upcoming MDOC Board meeting in October. But to date, there has not been a thorough review and approval of these rules. In fact, the mechanism for this is not in place. So at the most, these proposed rules might have been voted in by the Club Council (which does not yet have a buy in by the majority of club leagues throughout the United States), or, the one-man club committee of the MDOC (ie, Steve Walker) may have advanced them.

As a working official I have problems with the thinking that has gone into this product - or at best, don't know and appreciate the thinking that has gone into it. The language, as I read it, is vague and in cases obscure in how to enforce several provisions. I don't understand from reading the rules, how to interpret the rules.

I would like to approach this challenge of determining the common rules for all of club lacrosse from a fresh perspective. If we are not going to use International Rules or NCAA Rules - and why not use a set of established rules? - then we need to look at what problems exist, what are the solutions to the problems and then choose the best solution - best would be defined as easiest for all to understand, easy to work in terms of mechanics, and easy to teach to others. And, this needs to be done with the participation of all club leagues.

Once this is established and universally agreed upon, as officials we will need to work on training club officials. There is a quite different set of skills needed to do a club game. It is more of an art - what and when not to apply detailed rules, to see the big picture and get it right, and have it accepted by adults who have old rules from when they played (and didn't understand the rules then) locked into their brain.

Parallel to this last idea is to have the Club Council work to change the culture of disrespect towards officials that exists in club ball.

Lastly, with this forum, we are all, equally, voicing opinions. What is posted here is not "official" and therefore not the last word in any argument or proof. I don't pretend to be speaking for anyone other than myself.
Rob Wyman