LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2008 8:26 am**

NFHS or NCAA Rules.

Player on Team A is released 1 second early from his penalty by the timekeeper. After about a minute of play, we finally have a dead ball situation and the scorer's table gives a Double Tap of the Horn. The scorer's table admits their error - i.e. releasing the player early. Team A was entitled to the ball on the restart, outside their offensive restraining box (near goal line extended).

What is the ruling and how/where do you restart play?

Posted: **Thu May 01, 2008 10:38 am**

NCAA Rules:

Mistakes by Officials
SECTION 12. When a timekeeper, scorer or official makes a mistake
that would result in a team or player being penalized and another official
becomes aware that a mistake is being made, that official shall promptly correct the mistake. If goals are scored during the mistake made by the timekeeper, scorer or official and it is brought to the attention of the referee before the next live ball, the referee must allow or disallow the goal, depending on the circumstances.
A.R. 64. B1 is serving a one-minute penalty. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper’s mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to special-substitution area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded to the team in possession at the time of
the error (or, if the ball was loose, by the alternate-possession rule).

So in NCAA rules, A1 goes back in the box for his remaining penalty time, and the ball should be awarded tot he team in possession at the time of the early release (if you can figure that out) or by A.P. if loose.

NFHS Rules:

SECTION 13 CORRECTIONS OF ERRORS
When a coach believes an official (game Official, bench official, timer or scorer) has misapplied a rule, the coach may approach the scorer’s table to request a coach/official time-out for the purpose of discussing a possible misapplication of a rule. This request must be made prior to the next live ball. The timer shall sound the horn when there is no significant action, and the discussion shall take place in the Table Area in the presence of both coaches. If the official has misapplied a rule, necessary adjustments will be made and an explanation given to both coaches. No time-out will be charged and play will immediately be resumed. If there was no error in the application of the rule, the time-out will be charged to the requesting team; should there be time remaining for the charged time-out, the coach may utilize the amount remaining. The coach may not debate a judgment call. The coach/official time-out is limited to the possible misapplication of a rule.

7.13 SITUATION B: B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded according to the alternate-possession rule.

So the only real difference between the NCAA and Fed is that Fed only awards by A.P., while NCAA allows for possession to be retained by the team in possession at the time of the error.

Give the ball to the appropriate team where the ball is at the stoppage of play, outside the attack area.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 7:55 am**

laxfan25 wrote:7.13 SITUATION B: B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded according to the alternate-possession rule.

I think you are missing a line from this NFHS rule you are quoting laxfan 25. My 2008 rulebook says the following on page 78:

2008 NFHS Rule Book 7.13 SITUATION B wrote:B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded to the team in possession at the time of the error, or if the ball is loose, by alternate-possession.

laxfan25 wrote:So the only real difference between the NCAA and Fed is that Fed only awards by A.P., while NCAA allows for possession to be retained by the team in possession at the time of the error.

Seems the NCAA and NFHS rules are similar. Were you quoting on old rulebook laxfan25 by chance?

This still doesn't address where the restart happens. Do you restart where the ball was when the error happened? OR when you stopped the play on the dead ball?

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 8:03 am**

I guess another related question - If the penalty timekeeper doesn't remember who had possession when the player released early, you can't award possesssion. So you go A-P?

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 8:48 am**

2008 NFHS Rule Book 7.13 SITUATION B wrote:
B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded to the team in possession at the time of the error, or if the ball is loose, by alternate-possession.

why would the non-offending team now be penalized? They need to revisit that rule. The goal should stand.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 9:53 am**

Dan Warren wrote:
2008 NFHS Rule Book 7.13 SITUATION B wrote:
B1 is in penalty area for one minute. After 30 seconds of play, he is released by the official timekeeper and B2 scores a goal. Team A notifies officials of timekeeper's mistake. RULING: Goal does not count, and B1 returns to penalty area to serve his remaining 30 seconds. Ball is awarded to the team in possession at the time of the error, or if the ball is loose, by alternate-possession.

why would the non-offending team now be penalized? They need to revisit that rule. The goal should stand.

The ruling that there is no goal makes sense: you are never allowed to score with too many men on the field, even if it's the timekeeper's fault. In this case, I think they're making the point that ultimately the player is responsible for knowing when his penalty is over and the timekeeper is just an assistant. That sounds harsh, but if you allow the goal you allow Team B to benefit from a timekeeper's mistake. Note that B1 is not penalized for leaving early as he would be if he'd done it on his own.

The big problem I have with this is that if Team A is the home team, they could intentionally release B1 early, knowing that if a goal is scored it will get waved off. Or they could do it while the ball is loose and Team A has AP to get the ball. Fortunately, most timekeepers are either trying to do the job to the best of their abilities and follow the rules or they are the newly-recruited clueless girlfriends of the fourth-line middies. But these sorts of loopholes bug me nonetheless.

There are heaps of problems with the sections about officials mistakes. There is little guidance on how to handle things other than inadvertent whistles and flags. It's a good thing we never make mistakes! (Just kidding.)

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 2:18 pm**

Sonny wrote:Seems the NCAA and NFHS rules are similar. Were you quoting on old rulebook laxfan25 by chance?

This still doesn't address where the restart happens. Do you restart where the ball was when the error happened? OR when you stopped the play on the dead ball?

Yes, I was using a PDF of the NFHS book, which I received from highly-placed sources back in 2005 (where do the years go?). When I'm on line it's a much easier reference, and I didn't think that rule had changed much.

As far as the restart, I would go with where it was at the time of the last whistle. If the timekeeper didn't know who had possession - go with A-P.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:11 pm**

I was watching a game where this exact situation happened. The refs took away the goal and penalized the released player for another 30 seconds. At least they got it half right.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:17 pm**

cjwilhelmi wrote:I was watching a game where this exact situation happened. The refs took away the goal and penalized the released player for another 30 seconds. At least they got it half right.

Unless you were at the table, how do you know who made the error?

did the player leave on his own accord?
OR
was he released by the timekeeper?

There is a big difference in how you treat each of those situations.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:18 pm**

I was behind it and heard the release call.

Yes Sonny, refs can make mistakes... not you of course

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:22 pm**

cjwilhelmi wrote:I was behind it and heard the release call.

Yes Sonny, refs can make mistakes... not you of course

I make errors. I try to limit them, though. And certainly learn from my mistakes.

I read the rulebook more then I care to admit.

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:25 pm**

I will admit for everyone to see.

Sonny was the best ref that I have ever had as a head coach of a new program for one year in Atlanta.

:shock:

Posted: **Fri May 02, 2008 3:38 pm**

cjwilhelmi wrote:I will admit for everyone to see.

Sonny was the best ref that I have ever had as a head coach of a new program for one year in Atlanta.

High praise indeed.

Posted: **Sat May 03, 2008 3:13 am**

Sonny wrote:
cjwilhelmi wrote:I was watching a game where this exact situation happened. The refs took away the goal and penalized the released player for another 30 seconds. At least they got it half right.

Unless you were at the table, how do you know who made the error?

did the player leave on his own accord?
OR
was he released by the timekeeper?

There is a big difference in how you treat each of those situations.

I actually had this exact situation in a high school varsity game I did last weekend. The player released a few seconds early, on his own, and the next dead ball the table brought it to my attention. The offending player was given a 30 second penalty for the infraction.... wow, I do know what I'm talking about sometimes!!

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Player Released Early from Penalty by Timekeeper

Player Released Early from Penalty by Timekeeper