NEW Stick Check Procedures!

[Sonny]

Fellas,

Please sanitize future game discussions and DO NOT refer to actual team names. Team A vs. Team B is fine.

[Jolly Roger]

[ Is this a firm rule? By that I mean, will it ALWAYS be the goal scorers and a long pole that is checked after a goal?

This mechanic not clearly understood.

The officials are encouraged to conduct some random checks after a goal is scored.

It makes sense then, to measure the goal scorer's stick since a nonscoring attackman who just happens to be standing near the lead official might not have participated in the scoring play therefore gained no advantage with his illegal stick in that play.

They do not have to take a long pole but they are to take a stick from the opposing team. The most likely candidate in this situation would be a defender's stick (not specifically a long pole), otherwise, the single side official is running to the other end of the field, to get an attackman's stick, who would have time to "adjust" for any possible infractions not to mention increase the time this whole process takes.

[benji]

Gotcha ... I read it as that a longpole would be check explicitly. Thanks for clarifying.

[laxfan25]

They "recommend" that we check some long poles, which they had actually asked us to do last year as well. As some have noted, the D-poles have kind of gotten a free pass, and I know there are several players that were using illegal sticks - both deep pockets and pinched.
After a goal we are almost always going to go for the goal scorer as one of the two.

[LaxRef]

* If done after a goal, the goal scorer's stick and a long pole will be obtained. If the goal scorer's stick is illegal, the goal is taken off the board and the penalty is assessed.

Is this a firm rule? By that I mean, will it ALWAYS be the goal scorers and a long pole that is checked after a goal?

That is the mechanic, although it's not a hard and fast rule. There is probably more flexibility when it comes to mechanics than rules, and it might happen that for some reason it makes sense to do something other than the goal scorer and a long pole (a team isn't even required to have long poles on the field, so you can't say the officials always must check a long pole!). Also, remember that we can check sticks before a face-off, and if one of the sticks we check is from the scoring player the goal can still come off the board (assuing it's the ensuing face-off).

[Shawn Carman]

I have not read all of the posts, so I do not know if this has already been pointed out.

Back when I played in High School, my coach would throw a huge fit when a players stick was called illegal. The reason was because he worked construction and always carried a tape measure with him and constantly checked our players sticks for legal purposes.

And he was able to overturn many illegal stick calls by a simple demonstration.

Listen Up -
1.) He pointed out that on a tape measure the first inch is not an inch, it is longer (because of the design of the tape measure, usually an 1/8 inch or more longer). This making your stick appear to be 1/8 inch shorter than what it is suppose to be.

2.) So by doing what is called "Burning an Inch" you are able to get a better measurement of the dimensions of the stick.

So when measuring the stick you start measuring from the 1 inch line, and just add an inch to what ever you are measuring for.

Ex: You are measuring the width of the stick (inside) at 6 1/2 inches you start at the 1 inch mark and you should read 7 1/2 inches, giving you a legal stick.

I hope that might turn some attention to how the stick is being measured.

[laxfan25]

1.) He pointed out that on a tape measure the first inch is not an inch, it is longer (because of the design of the tape measure, usually an 1/8 inch or more longer). This making your stick appear to be 1/8 inch shorter than what it is suppose to be.

I sure wouldn't want this guy building anything for me if his tape measure didn't measure accurately! If the first inch is off an 1.8th, everything else will be off as well!
In reality, the end of the tape measure is designed to measure inside and outside - that's why the metal hook on the end always seems to be loose - it's designed to slide back and forth. When measuring inside dimensions - the hook pushes in so you get an accurate read, and when you hook it over the end of a board it extends to be accurate that way as well. so the variance is the width of the metal hook.
That being said, when I measure sticks I do exactly what you said - I start at a different inch mark and go 6 1/2 from there. My feeling is that if you are sticiking the metal hook into one side of the pocket you may not be getting to the inside wall because the curve of the head is hitting the metal hook. I've always said, we're not out to trap people - if I call a stick too narrow, you can bet that any measurement the team does will show the same.
I also don't know how your coach overturns illegal stick calls. Once I make my measurement and determination - the last thing I'm going to do is let the coach measure it as well for me - that is lunacy!

[LaxRef]

I also don't know how your coach overturns illegal stick calls. Once I make my measurement and determination - the last thing I'm going to do is let the coach measure it as well for me - that is lunacy!

Agreed. When I put that stick on the table, I tell the table personnel—loudly enough for the coaches to hear me—that no one is to touch the stick for the remainder of the game. If that coach came over and grabbed the stick to measure it, he'd get a USC call.

[Vox]

Four officials were assigned 3 games recently. Prior to the games, we shared a document related to the objective of the new stick check process and left it up to each referee to determine the stick check plan (SCP) for the game.

The SCP for the 2 games where I was referee, was to determine what checks we would do in the first quarter and discuss between quarters what we would do for that next quarter. Number one consideration was if anyone on the crew observed a stick he wanted to check.

Based on such an observation, we identified a specific player in the first game (middie) and were going to get his at the next stoppage when he was on the field. Turns out he shoots from outside the attack area line and puts it in the net. Stick is such the ball doesn't roll out freely from 90 degrees going forward. No goal, non releasable 3 minutes. Later in the game, same player same situation, different crosse but same result. No complaints from his coach.

Went into second game with different SCP for first period but still set up SCP period by period. Identified, late in game, player (middie) whose stick I wanted to check. His was ok but the defender's long pole, chosen because he was near by, wasn't. Again, ball would not roll out when stick rotated forward from 90 degrees.

Some additional comments/conclusions

1. It's tough for the L to get the shooter's stick after a goal. Shooters are not always close to the goal and often turn back toward midfield. We had the T come in to get the shooter's stick and the L to get one from a defender.

2. Creating/discussing the SCP on a quarter by quarter basis seemed to work well.

3. We developed our own signal for any of the crew to use when he saw a crosse he wanted to check. Point to the palm of the other hand. Didn't use it but once or twice. May not be worth it but we'll try again in our next games.

4. Overall impact on the length of game was about 5 minutes. Each of the stick checks took about a minute, especially if we had previously identified a player and discussed it. We had to make sure he was on the field, locate him at the the dead ball situation and go get his crosse.

5. Flow of game definitely impacted when checks are done at stoppage rather than after goals or end of periods.

6. None of 3 sticks were found illegal due to measurement altho several were close. Might want to do ball check only, especially on stoppage other than goal scored or period.

7. We reminded each coach, during certification, about the number and "randomness" of the stick checks. No negative comments from them pre/during/post game.

8. For each game, the officials have to have a consistent application as the referee isn't checking each stick. The umpire & field judge have to make their determinations quickly and confidently. Consultation with the referee to "verify" will result in more time. There is a tradeoff between consistency and timeliness.

9. Part of the randomness included stick checks at the end of 1, 2, & 3 quarter, at initial face off BUT ONLY IF any official observed an obviously illegal crosse and by the goal scorer in OT period.

To be continued after upcoming games.

[Brent Burns]

Not wanting to take anything away from this fascinating topic after doing quick comparison between CL and LP (LaxPower):

Total of pages: CL- 4 pages
LP- 4 pages

Total of replies: CL: 53
LP: 66

[Vox]

Several more games officiated, now totalling 4 for the new season. No overtime games, closest margin of victory 4 goals.

o 6 sticks found illegal. None by measurement.

o By positiion - 2 defenders, 3 middies, 1 attack.

Suggest the following procedure for checking crosses after a goal.

1 L whistles, signals goal, retrieves ball, IDs shooter and obtains stick. (If shooter moves to bench area or back to midfield area, L gets opponent crosse.) Checks with ball, then measuring tape. Gives ball to T. Signals penalty (if any) and goes to single side
2 T IDs shooter and gets shooter crosse unless L has gotten it. T get an opponent's crosse and checks with measuring tape, then ball. Gives ball to C and goes to position for next face. Signals penalties if any and repeats all to table.
3 C goes to or near face off square to observe players/benches and prepare for next face off, if no penalties.

Suggestions appreciated.

[semilaxed]

As a spectator watching the game i can't stand the new rule. It is slowing down the game way too much. Im tired of seeing the refs check sticks all the time.

[Vox]

Did you mean "Luceo Non Uro"?

Also, on yesterday's ESPN2 broadcast of "Inside Lacrosse", announcer Quint Kessenich said there would be "10 stick checks" per game. Does he have inside information?

At any rate, I certainly agree that the new stick checks will likely slow down the game if administered to meet the objective of eliminating illegal crosses.

[laxfan25]

An interesting point regarding stick checks - I heard the other day that in a game between the newest member of the Big 10 and a school from the Baltimore area named after a bird, there were FOUR illegal sticks found in the game, each of which resulted in goals being taken off the board.
This could be part of the reason why coaches wanted more checks to be done!

[Zeuslax]

I feel like this has to get a little bit worse before it gets better. Once the tone is set over a couple of seasons we may see it throttle back a little. The game may suffer from a spectator's point of view a little now, but it will payoff.

I understand the idea of checking the nearby stick and the player that scored the goal......the guy I'm keeping my eye on is typically the feeder(s). I like that the checks aren't predictable. If a pattern develops people will recognize it and exploit it.

I also sympathize with the coaches that can't get a quick explanation from a ref. A quick what was the issue and response is fair. Especially so the coach can become aware and attempt to ensure that the same mistake isn't repeated. I'm curious about games that have been played in the rain this year and I would like to see some stats for illegal sticks compared to dry games.