MCLA Officiating Fees for 2007 are announced

[laxfan25]

Given that cost comparison though, I never can understand why more recent graduates don't take up the stripes - even starting at the local high school level. We have tons of kids in our area that have played in HS and then gone on to college, and you rarely see tham contact us to see how they can get involved. Any ideas there?

One thing that I think helps is to get them doing youth games while they're still in HS. They get a taste of officiating and then when they're done playing in college it occurs to them to come back.

I certainly agree! I just did a new officials' training class - 1 adult, 1 freshman in college and 7 HS kids. Some are lacking in maturity, but with training and supervision - I'm hoping it's a farm system for the future!

[Dulax31]

Being one of the younger refs in Minnesota, my perspective from it is that there just is not enough information out there about the process of becoming a referee. I have given other guys my age information on who to contact and they told me they never got emailed back.

Personally, I think it's a serious problem for the growth of the game, something needs to be done. I know at least in Minnesota the lack of referees is causing trouble in assigning games, and the quality of officiating that is put out on the field.

One thing in Minnesota HS LAX I would really like to see before you're a certified referee is a test on the rules prior to the start of the season to make sure the referees are knowledgable on the rule book (include new rules).

I saw a rules test for High School and College on the US Lacrosse website:
http://www.lacrosse.org/mens_div/mdoc_training.phtml

[shrekjr]

I know at least in Minnesota the lack of referees is causing trouble in assigning games, and the quality of officiating that is put out on the field.

Well, you could bring over Laxfan25 from Michigan, but I'm not sure the quality is any better than what you already have in Minnesota.

[laxfan25]

I know at least in Minnesota the lack of referees is causing trouble in assigning games, and the quality of officiating that is put out on the field.

Well, you could bring over Laxfan25 from Michigan, but I'm not sure the quality is any better than what you already have in Minnesota.

Hey now, I resemble that! On Christmas Eve to boot!
I have to chuckle and wince at dulax's comments. We have had a kind of running disagreement here in Michigan with the MHSAA and the Michigan Lacrosse Officials Association. We (MichLOA) have done all the new officials training for the MHSAA, but also wanted to have standards, such as passing a test and requiring on-field certification. The first couple of years they went along, but this year, they have drastically lowered the bar. Basically, if a new prosepctive official attends a 6-hour classrooom session, they are certified to do HS lacrosse games!! They could be totally new to the sport, never having seen an actual field or play, and they would be "qualified" per the MHSAA. That is a really scary thought, but they are desperate to get the numbers up - although it hasn't been as big a shortage as in other areas.
Along with that, they have taken actions to limit the compensation of the lax refs. So, you want more refs, but don't want to pay them adequately in coming years, and don't really care to set standards for knowledge and performance. Think there is a disaster in the making in the not too distant future?

[Kyle Berggren]

A couple of things,

HiLineLax, if you want lax growth in Montana, I suggest you keep working with the kids & local Y. I know they put on or were trying to put on a lax event as one of their directors played at PLU a few years ago. If the kids get hooked young, HS will have it, but you have to have feeder programs to have a sustainable HS program.

I agree with you guys, a problem is in the making. We quite frankly don't do enough to improve our current officials, or cultivate new officials. It's not a glamorous job, rarely are you thanked, I doubt anyone ever smiles at you once the game starts, but throwing more money to get guys in isn't exactly ideal. We've got to do it for the love of the game, maybe it takes coaches having their kids volunteer to ref younger games (ms/youth) to learn to appreciate that side of the game.

When did all of you start officiating? What got you to toss your hat in the ring?

[Dulax31]

When I first got into refereeing, I most definitely did it for the money but as time passed, I have come to really enjoy it. To be there for the opening faceoff of a playoff game, to witness a miraculous come from behind victory, to see the passion in the kids play. These are the reasons why I have refereed the sport and will continue to do so, even when I could make more money doing other things. Being part of the game as a referee is something really special, we have such a power over the result of the game and because of that, we should really take pride in our trade and make sure we are as professional as we can be.

PS. Merry Chistmas everyone!

[laxfan25]

Kyle,
Good comments all around - I didn't mean to imply that it was just an issue of money. I was just a little peeved that the state association would like to roll back fees, which are on the lower end in our region.
I agree that getting a feeder program is key to the overall development of the sport in an area - not only to bring interested players along, but it also gives a nice training ground for new officials, where a mistake is not a horrible thing.
In our town, the HS seniors actually serve as coaches for the younger kids (like 5th-6th grade I believe), which gets them into the "giving back to the game" mode. I have also trained quite a few HS kids to be refs the last couple years - it's disappointing when they don't follow through and actually do it. If I can get a handful out of each group though, it is a foundation for the future. What's nice is that it is a skill they can take anywhere in the country - do HS/MS games while they're in college and keep up afterwards. Playing and reffing don't have to be mutually exclusive either.
I started reffing about 21 years ago. A buddy and I had started a men's club team in '81, and there were few if any refs in the area. Dick "Barney" Bauernschmidt used to send refs from Chicago, which was about a 3+ hour drive one-way. Eventually he roped me into reffing as well. I was co-captain of the team, assignor for the area and also a ref! There weren't nearly the number of HS teams at that time - just 2 in our area.
I was never interested in the coaching side - didn't get into the x's and o's - but have always wanted a well-called game where the players determine the outcome and one team doesn't get an advantage by bending the rules or by bad calls. Having started playing in '69, I feel I know the game well, know the spirit of the rules, and appreciate the tradition of sportsmanship that separates lacrosse from all others, in my mind. Yes, you can play hard, deck people, whack 'em with sticks and get away with it, but in the end you shake hands and (hopefully) sincerely congratulate them. That has been my mantra, and what I strive to achieve on the field. I'm not a ticky-tacky stickler on stuff that really doesn't matter to the play of the game. If we've got a field of some sort, and two teams that just want to play lacrosse - let's do it! (Yes, I can do it all when necessary - it's just running the game as appropriate given the teams and level of play).
One fond memory is when I first moved to Minnesota in '96. I got a call from someone who heard I had moved up there (I didn't know any of the lax people in the area) to do a Twin Cities Lax Club game at the last minute - oh, and do it solo. Arrived at the field, no one knew me and I could tell by the skeptical looks that they were wondering a bit. Negotiated the rate for the game, and proceeded to start. Needless to say, I did the typical stellar job, and at the end, both teams were quite complimentary ("You did better alone than we typically get with two!") and they even bumped up the pay based on how satisfied they were. Certainly made me feel good, and got me off to a nice start in the area.

So I ref out of a long-time love of the game, a respect for the avocation and craft of refereeing (it ain't as easy as it looks! Ask any first-time ref who has played the game) and because you have the best seat in the house - bar none! (Although you would be amazed at how well coaches can call crease violations from 40 yards away, when you are standing right next to it!). Yes, the money is a nice perk, and I am grateful to the associations that help to keep pay in line with reasonableness.

I do hope more of you players will consider taking up the whistle. One plus for a working stiff - the hours are much more reasonable than those that coach! I respect those that take up the coaching reins. They put in long, long hours at miserable rates of compensation. They definitely do it out of love for the game, and I do try to maintain an atmosphere of mutual respect in my games - we're all trying to give the best effort for the kids that are playing - that is the bottom line!

[Kyle Berggren]

Kyle,
You would be amazed at how well coaches can call crease violations from 40 yards away, when you are standing right next to it!.

That makes me laugh, I probably yell he's in the crease once a quarter...

I know of at least 1 coach that required his players to do community service of some sort (he was soon fired), but it might not be a bad idea to get kids to ref clinic/camp scrimmages. They don't get paid, they'll get an appreciation for how hard it is (I still remember my first time doing it, there can be a lot of pressure), & if we're lucky, they just might be able to ref some HS games for extra money in season. I think I'll work on a way to expose my kids to it for 2008, we're a little late now, but who knows what we can come up with. I'm a real stickler for officials, either you've shown that you deserve my respect on the field & proven you're invaluable, or you're a bonehead that allowed 2 guys from the same team to face off on the same wing.

Anyway you look at it, I do believe we can't just chastise refs for being terrible, we have to figure out a way for them to improve. Until areas like Spokane, Montana (all of it), & other areas have more established youth-to-hs programs, we're just tossing guys to the wolves (coaches like me). We need ref poll of some sort for each area & offer the highest level, best paying assignments to the best officials... Now if we only had the officials that were qualified. I still see the growing youth leagues as the training ground, letting the kids move up. Hey I went to a liberal arts school, maybe we can get a class on refereeing (the kids can pay 25k to ref).. or we need bonuses paid at the end of the year based on rankings, I'm not sure...

[Sonny]

I have to chuckle and wince at dulax's comments. We have had a kind of running disagreement here in Michigan with the MHSAA and the Michigan Lacrosse Officials Association. We (MichLOA) have done all the new officials training for the MHSAA, but also wanted to have standards, such as passing a test and requiring on-field certification. The first couple of years they went along, but this year, they have drastically lowered the bar. Basically, if a new prosepctive official attends a 6-hour classrooom session, they are certified to do HS lacrosse games!! They could be totally new to the sport, never having seen an actual field or play, and they would be "qualified" per the MHSAA. That is a really scary thought, but they are desperate to get the numbers up - although it hasn't been as big a shortage as in other areas.

This probably isn't different then any of the other sports they manage. They are looking at the bigger picture where most sports have multiple officials associations within one individual sport. They set a minimum standard and let the individual officials associations implement them.

Also note that being "certified" to do games doesn't mean they should actually receive H.S. assignments. Assigning is an entirely different thing. In most areas, most folks work on J.V. games (at least initially) if they are first year officials in a H.S. lacrosse officials association.

P.S. Does Michigan have enough officials that they really can negotiate from a "position of authority" and tell first/second year officials to go work youth games (non H.S.) before applying to join a H.S. officials association?

[Sonny]

One thing in Minnesota HS LAX I would really like to see before you're a certified referee is a test on the rules prior to the start of the season to make sure the referees are knowledgable on the rule book (include new rules).

I saw a rules test for High School and College on the US Lacrosse website:
http://www.lacrosse.org/mens_div/mdoc_training.phtml

You local officials association should already be doing some sort of testing. Now that the sport has been sanctioned in MN, expect more regulation from the state and to take a annual test on the Federation Rulebook. In my states, you will have to pay a fee to the state, file an application, take annual rules test, and attend a rules clinic to be certified to officiate.

[laxfan25]

This probably isn't different then any of the other sports they manage. They are looking at the bigger picture where most sports have multiple officials associations within one individual sport. They set a minimum standard and let the individual officials associations implement them.

We had a state-wide lacrosse officials association, obvioulsy focused on just the one sport, and very concerned with training and competence on the field. The MHSAA made us split up into two this year, however, there are no minimum standards for us to even implement. We had a rules test, which they have eliminated. They do NOT want the association to have their own test or requirements. There is also an MHSAA rules clinic, but that is only mandatory if you want to do playoff games.

Also note that being "certified" to do games doesn't mean they should actually receive H.S. assignments. Assigning is an entirely different thing. In most areas, most folks work on J.V. games (at least initially) if they are first year officials in a H.S. lacrosse officials association.

Conceptually that is a great idea, but JV games are always paired with varsity, and we don't really have the luxury of having guys show up for just one of the games - bodies are needed for more coverage. That would be an ideal situation however - have the newbies run the JV game (or MS games) with a veteran partner. I try to make myself available to work with the new guys, but when it is crunch time with MCLA and high-level HS games going on - it is hard to find the time.

P.S. Does Michigan have enough officials that they really can negotiate from a "position of authority" and tell first/second year officials to go work youth games (non H.S.) before applying to join a H.S. officials association?

No, the MHSAA is trying to get new recruits, and there are no restrictions (outside of playoffs) on what games they can do. Even a first-year ref - if he attends the rules clinic - is "qualified" per the MHSAA to do playoffs. Fortunately they do take input from coaches and the assignors as to who should do playoff games - but they are the assigning power for the playoffs and can do whatever they want. They also highly recommend that officials join an association right away, but it is not a requirement in lacrosse at this point.

[Sonny]

The requirements you describe are quite similar to what we have here in Georgia. Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm not sure how effective a state wide high school lacrosse officials association can be in the long run. It is hard enough for us to have regular meetings for our officials association in Metro Atlanta with horrible traffic, very busy college & H.S. game schedule, etc. How can Detroit officials work with officials effectively from the Western or Northern part of the state?

Locally run organizations are best suited to help recruit/develop/retain officials. Eventually, we envision splitting off into two or three associations for Metro Atlanta and more in Central and South Georgia when appropriate.

2. It seems to me that you are talking about both sides of your mouth - You say on one hand that you don't have enough officials, yet you complain with the MHSAA tries to recruit more officials?!?

3. Again, "qualified" to do games doesn't equal "assignment" to games. I assume that it is still up to your local association to assign regular season H.S. games, not the MHSAA?

The MHSAA is just like most other state-wide athletics associations that want to foster competition among officials and officials associations. Since they don't run your association, I don't see how they could honestly tell you guys what to do (or not do) - as long as you are meeting their minimal standards. You should be free to supplement their rules clinic with your own training, mentoring, and testing - and let your assignments reflect those who maintain good stading with the officials association.

[Jolly Roger]

One thing in Minnesota HS LAX I would really like to see before you're a certified referee is a test on the rules prior to the start of the season to make sure the referees are knowledgable on the rule book (include new rules).

Let's just make sure the coaches (and the whining players) know the rules as well.

[laxfan25]

The requirements you describe are quite similar to what we have here in Georgia. Couple of thoughts:

1. I'm not sure how effective a state wide high school lacrosse officials association can be in the long run. It is hard enough for us to have regular meetings for our officials association in Metro Atlanta with horrible traffic, very busy college & H.S. game schedule, etc. How can Detroit officials work with officials effectively from the Western or Northern part of the state?

Locally run organizations are best suited to help recruit/develop/retain officials. Eventually, we envision splitting off into two or three associations for Metro Atlanta and more in Central and South Georgia when appropriate.

2. It seems to me that you are talking about both sides of your mouth - You say on one hand that you don't have enough officials, yet you complain with the MHSAA tries to recruit more officials?!?

3. Again, "qualified" to do games doesn't equal "assignment" to games. I assume that it is still up to your local association to assign regular season H.S. games, not the MHSAA?

The MHSAA is just like most other state-wide athletics associations that want to foster competition among officials and officials associations. Since they don't run your association, I don't see how they could honestly tell you guys what to do (or not do) - as long as you are meeting their minimal standards. You should be free to supplement their rules clinic with your own training, mentoring, and testing - and let your assignments reflect those who maintain good stading with the officials association.

1) With the statewide group, we had board members from the East and West side specifically (there are no refs in Northern MI at this point), and wew had regular conference calls and got together a couple times a year. Member meetings were not held statewide - we would have local get-togethers, but getting people to attend even those was a challenge.

2) I don't have a problem at all with the MHSAA helping to recruit officials, and welcome it! The problem we had was that they really don't require sufficient training.

3) As of now, this is reflected in assignments (somewhat), and we have assignors on the east and west sides that do very good jobs. One concern is that the MHSAA does not require schools to use the assignors, although they all do at this point. In several sports (football for sure) the school AD's contract with ref crews outside of assignors. I know several football refs and asked how they get games. "We have to hustle them - contacting the AD's, who have their long-term favorites." So many of them have to go to the outlying areas to get games. All the games for next season have already been set in football. I can see under this setup how teams have a concern about getting "homered" when the home AD is hand-selecting the ref crews. I much prefer having an assignor that knows the capabilities of the refs doing the scheduling, and balancing out assignments. One thing with football, the crew stays the same during the whole season, whereas we are constantly working with different partners, which is a good thing in my mind.

[Sonny]

One concern is that the MHSAA does not require schools to use the assignors, although they all do at this point. In several sports (football for sure) the school AD's contract with ref crews outside of assignors.

That smacks of ethical misconduct, if I've ever heard of it. I can't imagine how the MHSAA goes along with individual AD's & coaches handpicking their game officials.

In Georgia, individual schools can pick the association they want to use to provide officials for home games during the regular season. They don't get to pick actual officials, just the association they want to use on an annual basis. This creates competition among the officials associations in the major sports (football, basketball, soccer, and baseball) with multiple associations in a given area. They have to continually work hard to provide a quality service to the schools and the districts.

Eventually, lacrosse will grown enough to the point where it mirrors other sports in this regard.

For the post season, the GHSA does all the assigning at the association level. They may tell a certain association that they have to provide a certain number of crews (for a certain number of playoff rounds). But I don't think they hand pick certain individuals to work certain games. It's up to the associations to rate their own officials and dole out playoff assignments.

I think some of the changes that are currently occurring in lacrosse officiating as different states sanction the sport are growing pains that must be tolerated as the sport goes mainstream. It might different then the way we "once did things." But the resources that non-lacrosse organizations and individual school districts can provide will propel lacrosse to an even higher stature then today.