Surpsrise stick inspection

[LaxRef]

Fine if that is the type of team you are. But i am still not going to call a stick check. 2 a game is enough. I have called a stick check before when I needed a timeout and didn't have one. I had them check the goalie's stick. Like i said, just because i have the right, doesn't mean it is right.

Why do you think two per game is enough when we end up only catching the dumb ones and the ones who unintentionally have illegal sticks (not that those guys aren't guilty, too)?

[grinderpete]

Yes, totally a moral issue

I understand the morals of the LDS seem to be quite strict. Heck, I even had the captains from a team from Utah once ask me if I could be sure and ask the players from the opposing team not to swear during the game because of their morals. But in this case, it just doesn't make sense to me. You are entitled to ask for an equipment check. It is your right to do so. It is simply part of the game of lacrosse.

It has nothing to do with my religion. I am a little surprised that this was even asked. I am just saying that for me i think that it is unsprotsmanlike to question whether my players are using an illegal stick. I would never question someone else. If you are cheating, fine, but I am not going to point it out or look to see who is cheating.

[UofMLaxGoalie11]

i think lots of people think of it kinda as a tattle tale thing to do. others might feel that they dont need to do it because their team can beat the others even if they are cheating. I understand where the majority of people who are against stick checks come from. its just hard to express.

[LaxRef]

It has nothing to do with my religion. I am a little surprised that this was even asked. I am just saying that for me i think that it is unsprotsmanlike to question whether my players are using an illegal stick. I would never question someone else. If you are cheating, fine, but I am not going to point it out or look to see who is cheating.

The way I look at it, if your team is legal you have nothing to worry about with astick check, and if your team is cheating you have no right to be mad that someone called you on it.

Saying that it's unsportsmanlike to call for a check allowed by the rules is the same as complaining that the other team is setting legal screens: you might not like it, but it's part of the game because it's part of the rules.

[Kyle Berggren]

I think its a good call... I've even used it as a last time out late in the 4th when we needed it... I can't wait to have a goal waived off in the 4th, and get a final time out with it.

[Lax_Stats]

I think its a good call... I've even used it as a last time out late in the 4th when we needed it... I can't wait to have a goal waived off in the 4th, and get a final time out with it.

I so totally agree with you Kyle!!!

[horn17]

I agree that the coaches should use the random checks if they see reason to....ive used them before...and i love when players dont have ball stops!!! It can save goals as well....however, I think it comes into play that the officals should remain partial and unbiased at all times, looking for "illegal sticks" durring play not only draws away from your real job, reffing the game, but also takes the biased view out of the equation....sometimes i think officals can confuse officating with policing, and that greay area they step into can cause confusion all around....

I wish they would just let us play....

[LaxRef]

I agree that the coaches should use the random checks if they see reason to....ive used them before...and i love when players dont have ball stops!!! It can save goals as well....however, I think it comes into play that the officals should remain partial and unbiased at all times, looking for "illegal sticks" durring play not only draws away from your real job, reffing the game, but also takes the biased view out of the equation....sometimes i think officals can confuse officating with policing, and that greay area they step into can cause confusion all around....

I wish they would just let us play....

Um, a stick without a ball stop is not an illegal stick. No penalty, no goal disallowed, just fix it.

I guess I don't understand the point of view that you don't want officials to notice illegal equipment. Why not tell them not to notice slashes, either? And if your team has legal sticks, isn't it fair for you to expect the other team to have legal sticks, or to be penalized if they don't?

[horn17]

I believe a ball stop is a required item of a legal stick, i have 4 games were refs have wiped the goal, and allowed the stick to to fixed, its not your typical 3 minutes....if not then i will be sure to bring it up to our league, as they all call it.....(EDITED UNTIL LINK PROVIDED - looking for the story..its around here somewhere...)

I was focusing on durring the play, watching for pockets that are out fo the ordinar, or might be to close, thats all....comparing slashes to illegal sticks is over the top, safety issues, if you are comparing a slash to an illegal stick, then they should all be 3 minute penalties????.....still my same point, looking for illegal equipment durring play, not watching the field of play...

[grinderpete]

I agree that the coaches should use the random checks if they see reason to....ive used them before...and i love when players dont have ball stops!!! It can save goals as well....however, I think it comes into play that the officals should remain partial and unbiased at all times, looking for "illegal sticks" durring play not only draws away from your real job, reffing the game, but also takes the biased view out of the equation....sometimes i think officals can confuse officating with policing, and that greay area they step into can cause confusion all around....

I wish they would just let us play....

Um, a stick without a ball stop is not an illegal stick. No penalty, no goal disallowed, just fix it.

I guess I don't understand the point of view that you don't want officials to notice illegal equipment. Why not tell them not to notice slashes, either? And if your team has legal sticks, isn't it fair for you to expect the other team to have legal sticks, or to be penalized if they don't?

Actually i would love it if refs stopped calling everything altogether

[Lax_Stats]

I believe a ball stop is a required item of a legal stick, i have 4 games were refs have wiped the goal, and allowed the stick to to fixed, its not your typical 3 minutes....if its not, why was it called 3 years ago during the NCAA playoffs Limestone vs. (adelphi, or post, cant remember)....

still my same point, looking for illegal equipment durring play, not watching the field of play...

A ball stop is required as part of the stick! However, if a goal is scored and the stick is checked immediately after the goal is scored and there is no ball stop, the goal still counts. Not having a ball stop doesn't make the stick illegal. The correct procedure is to simply have the player put a ball stop in the stick before it can further be used in the game.

Also, as far as what was called 3 years ago doeant mean the same thing would still be called today. The rules change every year and what was legal 3 years ago might not be legal today and vice versa.

[horn17]

i stay up on the rules for that reason....thank you Lax Stats, you helped me prove my point..

im with pete....full contact cage lax anyone????

[LaxRef]

I believe a ball stop is a required item of a legal stick, i have 4 games were refs have wiped the goal, and allowed the stick to to fixed, its not your typical 3 minutes....if not then i will be sure to bring it up to our league, as they all call it.....(EDITED UNTIL LINK PROVIDED - looking for the story..its around here somewhere...)

I'd be interested to see if you could find a rule in the rulebook that supports disallowing a goal for a missing ball stop. NFHS has a rule that makes a stick with 2 ball stops illegal, but they explicitly state that a crosse with no stop just needs to be fixed.

Missing stop, missing end cap, hanging strings too long: these are all "fix it and let's play" issues, since none of these confer an advantage. No time served, no goal disallowed. Of course, a lot of officials are confused on this issue, so I don't doubt that you've seen it penalized incorrectly.

I was focusing on durring the play, watching for pockets that are out fo the ordinar, or might be to close, thats all....comparing slashes to illegal sticks is over the top, safety issues, if you are comparing a slash to an illegal stick, then they should all be 3 minute penalties????.....still my same point, looking for illegal equipment durring play, not watching the field of play...

I do not believe that anyone is advocating looking for illegal sticks and ignoring all other fouls. You act as if it is not possible to be watching the play, making sure there are no slashes, holds, etc., and also notice that the ball managed to stay in the stick despite repeated checks and crazy dodges. If we could only notice one thing at a time, we couldn't do a damn thing out there; we're constantly multitasking, doing the counts, getting to our spots, watching the play. To say we have to either look for illegal equipment or look for fouls is absurd.

Besides, I wasn't talking about paying undue attention to equipment in order to try to catch someone who's stick is just barely illegal, I'm talking about when you notice stick that's obviously illegal because it's blatant.

[horn17]

I agree with you then that you have clarified your stance ....I personally feel that you should have no control to stop the game in the middle of play to do a check, make a note, do it later buts its just a rule, so we deal and move on....

[b]Of course, a lot of officials are confused on this issue, so I don't doubt that you've seen it penalized incorrectly.
[b]

More trainging then.....

You guys do a great job, however I'm just stating that you can see the situations that can arise when people arent totally on the same page, to often I have objections to crews that arent on the same page...I think thats my real arguement...Lax, i agree that there are numerous things going at the same time....not trying to argue with you, your a ref, and it usual doesnt go to far... it sounds like you are a smart and gifted ref, we could use more of you...thanks for the clarifications...

[LaxRef]

I agree with you then that you have clarified your stance ....I personally feel that you should have no control to stop the game in the middle of play to do a check, make a note, do it later buts its just a rule, so we deal and move on.....

And, again, I think the real problem is that the people who are intentionally cheating know when we check sticks and get the illegal sticks off the field then, while the "inadvertent" cheaters are the ones getting caught. Something about this offends my sense of fair play.