How do I stick check?

[cjwilhelmi]

Ok let me get y'alls advice on this one:

Every game I have my entire attack and line one mids (plus face off middie) get their sticks checked. I have had so many refs say that everyone of their sticks are illegal. I finally got fed up with it and walked over to see how they were doing it. They were putting the silver metal tip to the inside of the plastic and measuring that way. No wonder they were all illegal, that takes away a minimum of 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch from the widest point.

Is there a standard way about this or what is the possibility of changing the language of the rule that the head is measured from the 1 inch line to the 7.5 inch line? Thoughts?

[Lax_Stats]

The measurement for stick head width IS to be done from inside to inside NOT outside to outside. Simple as that. Look at the diagram on page 94 of the 2006 NCAA rule book. Although not the best diagram, it clearly shows the measurement from inside to inside and not form outside to outside. Also, on page 18 the rule book states: "The head of the crosse at it's widest point shall measure between 6 1/2 and 10 inches, inside measurement at the front of the sidewall.

[cjwilhelmi]

The measurement for stick head width IS to be done from inside to inside NOT outside to outside. Simple as that. Look at the diagram on page 94 of the 2006 NCAA rule book. Although not the best diagram, it clearly shows the measurement from inside to inside and not form outside to outside.

I agree with that. I am saying that they use the metal thing on the end of the tape measure and push it against the inside of the stick. Lets say the head measures exactly 6.5 inches which is legal. The metal thing at the end makes the head measure 6.3 inches which is illegal.

[Lax_Stats]

Not on my tape measure it doesn't. However, most officials will go to the 1 inch mark on their tape measure if there is any question as to legality of the stick head width as a secondary form of measurement to be as certain as possible on the actual measurement.

[laxfan25]

I do the measurement from the 1" or 2" line for the reason cjw noted. On some sticks the curve of the head will prevent the metal thingie from snugging up to the wall, and I feel I get the most accurate measurement laying the tape across the top. Again, given the penalty I think it is imperative to get it right.
(Don't get me started on some of the funky stick designs that introduce their own set of questions - the Revo Pro in particular).

[cjwilhelmi]

I absolutely love having ref's that I can ask questions of. This forum is a great idea.

Question again...

Player A gets his stick checked pre game. It is one of the new Brine sticks (pulse) so the throat is pinched. The ref indicates nothing is wrong with the head. During the game Player A's stick is randomly checked and found to be illegal. When asked the ref states that the throat has been pinched because the ball does not roll out when tilted from vertical to horizontal.

Weather conditions: cold and hard rain

Ruling: 3 Min unreleasable

Now I understand that some people get their sticks checked and then use another one. I can assure those reading this that Player A used the same stick that was checked. I can also understand if the ball did not roll out because the mesh got wet or the sidewalls started to bag inside the head or something of that. That however would be a 1 Min unreleasable and I would not ask this question.

After all of this explaining here is the actual question: If the sidewalls are not distorted in any way (lets be honest we can all tell if a stick has been pinched), and the same stick is checked pregame. How can it become illegal.

Sonny feel free to delete if you think this is inappropriate. I am just trying to find an honest answer.

Respectfully,

[LaxRef]

Player A gets his stick checked pre game. It is one of the new Brine sticks (pulse) so the throat is pinched. The ref indicates nothing is wrong with the head. During the game Player A's stick is randomly checked and found to be illegal. When asked the ref states that the throat has been pinched because the ball does not roll out when tilted from vertical to horizontal.

Weather conditions: cold and hard rain

Ruling: 3 Min unreleasable

Now I understand that some people get their sticks checked and then use another one. I can assure those reading this that Player A used the same stick that was checked. I can also understand if the ball did not roll out because the mesh got wet or the sidewalls started to bag inside the head or something of that. That however would be a 1 Min unreleasable and I would not ask this question.

After all of this explaining here is the actual question: If the sidewalls are not distorted in any way (lets be honest we can all tell if a stick has been pinched), and the same stick is checked pregame. How can it become illegal.

Could the stick have been warm at the beginning of the game and then contracted due to the cold?

Here's the question: was the pocket deep? If the pocket is not deep and the ball does not roll out, we do not have the 1:00 option. The way the A.R. is worded, it says "If the pocket is too deep and the officials feel that the pocket depth is the reason the ball will not release, a 1:00 nonreleasable penalty may be assessed and the crosse may return if adjusted." That means both conditions must be met to assess the 1:00 instead of the 3:00.

If the pocket was too deep in this situation, I would look to see if I though that was the reason the ball wouldn't release. But if the pocket is not too deep, I have to give the 3:00 NR penalty; there's no wiggle room here.

[cjwilhelmi]

Thanks LaxRef, check your PM. I'm not mad at the ref by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just frustrated and trying to find out information from a referee's point of view.

[Sonny]

I absolutely love having ref's that I can ask questions of. This forum is a great idea.

Question again...

Player A gets his stick checked pre game. It is one of the new Brine sticks (pulse) so the throat is pinched. The ref indicates nothing is wrong with the head. During the game Player A's stick is randomly checked and found to be illegal. When asked the ref states that the throat has been pinched because the ball does not roll out when tilted from vertical to horizontal.

Weather conditions: cold and hard rain

Ruling: 3 Min unreleasable

Now I understand that some people get their sticks checked and then use another one. I can assure those reading this that Player A used the same stick that was checked. I can also understand if the ball did not roll out because the mesh got wet or the sidewalls started to bag inside the head or something of that. That however would be a 1 Min unreleasable and I would not ask this question.

After all of this explaining here is the actual question: If the sidewalls are not distorted in any way (lets be honest we can all tell if a stick has been pinched), and the same stick is checked pregame. How can it become illegal.

Unfortunately Corbin - any number of sticks can be legal prior to the game and become illegal during the game. Sometimes they "become" illegal through play. Sometimes they become illegal because a player modified his stick after the equipment check. We can't determine "intent."

A good ref will tell you when inspecting the equipment prior to the game that the stick is legal... AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME. You don't get a "Get out of Jail Free Card" for the rest of the day, week, or season.

Believe me, I know this is a frustating issue for coaches & players. But all we can do is do the required equipment checks during the game and issue our judgments at that time (when they count). Any equipment checks we provide before the contest are a "free" service and shouldn't be considered "binding."

It's up to the players and coaches to play with legal equipment and players are suppose to notify their coach if any part of their equipment becomes illegal through play.

[laxfan25]

I absolutely love having ref's that I can ask questions of. This forum is a great idea.

Player A gets his stick checked pre game. It is one of the new Brine sticks (pulse) so the throat is pinched. The ref indicates nothing is wrong with the head. During the game Player A's stick is randomly checked and found to be illegal. When asked the ref states that the throat has been pinched because the ball does not roll out when tilted from vertical to horizontal.
If the sidewalls are not distorted in any way (lets be honest we can all tell if a stick has been pinched), and the same stick is checked pregame. How can it become illegal.
Respectfully,

I'm glad you like this forum, and posters have been doing a very good job following the posting guidelines. Thanks!
In regard to your questions; 1) the official would not give a 3 min penalty because the stick is pinched, instead, because the ball did not roll out of the pocket in doing the game stick check (which may be because of the pinched nature of the design). It very well may have passed in the pregame check.
2) How can it become illegal? Very easily; if the player did a faceoff, the torsion on the head will definitely deform it, at least temporarily. (some players take advantage of this on faceoffs - getting the ball in the back of the stick, pressing sideways to warp the head and hold the ball, and then it unflexes as they sweep to their teammate on the side). Just going for ground balls can also induce changes to the head.
One thing I have noticed is that on some sticks, the manufacturers are making them barely legal in the throat, and sometimes just the stringing of the stick will hold the ball in. Unfortunately, they don't stamp heads with model names like golf clubs, so I can't speak to specific sticks, but there is one that comes to mind.
Because of the severity of the penalty, I am always very sure when I throw the flag here - if it's borderline I'll usually tell the player to be careful - that it's close to illegal.

[cjwilhelmi]

2) How can it become illegal? Very easily; if the player did a faceoff, the torsion on the head will definitely deform it, at least temporarily. (some players take advantage of this on faceoffs - getting the ball in the back of the stick, pressing sideways to warp the head and hold the ball, and then it unflexes as they sweep to their teammate on the side). Just going for ground balls can also induce changes to the head.

He's my X attackman.

[Kyle Berggren]

Maybe he's standing leaning on his stick while on defense, when there is very little wiggle room to begin with.

[laxfan25]

Here is a picture of the Brine Pulse;
http://www.detroitlax.com/images/large/pulse.gif

The Brine Swerve seems to be even tighter, and the blurb says
"Sleek, narrow face pinch increases ball retention and accuracy."

http://www.detroitlax.com/images/large/swerve.gif

Looking through the catalog, many of the Brine sticks have very narrow throats, so the players need to be careful. I put some of the burden back on the mfrs, they are really pushing the limits, and it's the players that deal with the consequences. It is those narrow throat sticks that often catch the official's eye when selecting a player to check.

[cjwilhelmi]

Looking through the catalog, many of the Brine sticks have very narrow throats, so the players need to be careful. I put some of the burden back on the mfrs, they are really pushing the limits, and it's the players that deal with the consequences. It is those narrow throat sticks that often catch the official's eye when selecting a player to check.

"it seems they were stopping everyone who was driving down that particular sidewalk. Thats profiling and profilings wrong." - Ron "Tator Salad" White

[laxfan25]

"it seems they were stopping everyone who was driving down that particular sidewalk. Thats profiling and profilings wrong." - Ron "Tator Salad" White

"I wasn't intoxicated in public. I was intoxicated in private, and they threw me INTO public." "I had the right to remain silent. I just didn't have the ability!"

Probable cause - not profiling.