Shot Clock

[Dulax31]

What is your guys opinion on implementing a shot clock at the NCAA (and our) level? The use it in vail, and it seems to work pretty well, keeps the game moving.

[Dan Wishengrad]

How many teams -- and what percentage of the MDIA as a whole -- do you think could afford to have visible shot clocks mounted behind each end of the field so each offense could see it? Is that number more or less than half of one percent (0.05%)? How many MDIA teams could find a competent shot clock operator for each game, in addition to a scorekeeper and timekeeper.

Seriously, this idea has been floated in the past and has died a very quick and merciful death. Even at the varsity level, many DII and DIII programs could not bear this burden. To think we at the MDIA could do so is silly, for all but a tiny handful of clubs.

[Sonny]

Last time I was at Vail, they didn't use a visable shot clock. The referees used their buzzers (set to 20 seconds). The last 10 seconds were counted out loud and/or by hand signals. The center official (single side) would turn his buzzer on when they crossed midfield with possession of the ball. It was a little odd, but it worked out OK from what I could tell.

[Dulax31]

Last time I was at Vail, they didn't use a visable shot clock. The referees used their buzzers (set to 20 seconds). The last 10 seconds were counted out loud and/or by hand signals. The center official (single side) would turn his buzzer on when they crossed midfield with possession of the ball. It was a little odd, but it worked out OK from what I could tell.

Yes, and that is what they could do, there isn't a Visible time clock for the 20 seconds to get it out of the defensive box or 10 seconds to get it into the offensive box and that seems to work just fine.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Well that certtainly makes more sense than the proposal for actual shot CLOCKS, which was introduced some years back but which was scrapped as impractical.

I guess the other question is do we really need a shot clock? Is our game so boring that we have to fix it? My vote is to leave things as is -- there is nothing wrong with the game and rules as is -- Refs CAN warn a team for stalling under the present rules, and take the ball away from them if they are keeping it from play without attempting to attack the goal. My two cents..

[onpoint]

Last time I was at Vail, they didn't use a visable shot clock. The referees used their buzzers (set to 20 seconds). The last 10 seconds were counted out loud and/or by hand signals. The center official (single side) would turn his buzzer on when they crossed midfield with possession of the ball. It was a little odd, but it worked out OK from what I could tell.

We tried visible ones, but they are much more difficult to maintain. The negative to the above method is that if there is a tipped pass by the defense that goes out of bounds, there is no way to set your buzzer (as a ref) to 13 seconds or whatever. You get a total reset every time. It's just a fact of life in Vail, no one gets to mad about it, but in a college game, that could be a significant advantage to the offense in a late game situation. No need for a shot clock in college, in my opinion. Just call the stall more often. You see the refs at the NCAA level call it more than here, but that's another debate.

[LaxRef]

Last time I was at Vail, they didn't use a visable shot clock. The referees used their buzzers (set to 20 seconds). The last 10 seconds were counted out loud and/or by hand signals. The center official (single side) would turn his buzzer on when they crossed midfield with possession of the ball. It was a little odd, but it worked out OK from what I could tell.

Yes, and that is what they could do, there isn't a Visible time clock for the 20 seconds to get it out of the defensive box or 10 seconds to get it into the offensive box and that seems to work just fine.

There is incredible variability in how long a visual 10-second count takes. I'd say the range is from 10 to 20 seconds. Based on that, I'd rather have a 40-second limit (clicking the buzzer twice) with the "clock" getting reset to 20 seconds if the ball goes out of bounds by a deflection or something but reset to 40 if play is stopped because of a foul by the defense.

But I'd rather not see it at all.

[LaxRef]

My vote is to leave things as is -- there is nothing wrong with the game and rules as is -- Refs CAN warn a team for stalling under the present rules, and take the ball away from them if they are keeping it from play without attempting to attack the goal. My two cents..

Actually, the officials cannot take the ball away if a team is not attacking the goal, they can only warn the team to keep it in the box. Then if the ball goes out (except by a shot or a defelction by the defense, although they never define "deflection": is a kicked ball a deflection? a missed scoop? or only a tipped pass?) they take it away.

However, I agree that the game is not broken, although I wish other officials would put the stall on a little more quickly. Some guys I work with would rather get kicked in the nuts than put a stall warning on before the last 2 minutes of the game!

[byualum]

I noticed in Vail that once you add the shot clock, suddenly you hear a lot of, "Shoot high, shoot high". Guys are smart enough to shoot the ball 10 feet over the cage to retain possession.

[laxfan25]

Actually, the officials cannot take the ball away if a team is not attacking the goal, they can only warn the team to keep it in the box. Then if the ball goes out (except by a shot or a defelction by the defense, although they never define "deflection": is a kicked ball a deflection? a missed scoop? or only a tipped pass?) they take it away.

However, I agree that the game is not broken, although I wish other officials would put the stall on a little more quickly. Some guys I work with would rather get kicked in the nuts than put a stall warning on before the last 2 minutes of the game!

In regard to the deflection, I would say that any action by the defense that causes the ball to go out of the attack box is a "deflection". Give the O 10 seconds to bring it back in and announce the stall warning again.

Speaking personally, I have had very few games where it appears that a team is visibly stalling. In most cases the teams are driving their coaches crazy by bringing the ball in from the top and taking a bad shot from 20 yds out without moving it around at all. I think we might have had 1 or 2 stall warnings this year - and I certainly don't relish getting kicked in the nuts! (Certainly would get my attention!) IMM, a shot clock is not needed, and it would be one more distraction for the official.

[LaxRef]

I do have to say that the officials at the final four were right in line with my feelings on the stall. Every time but one, when I said to my friend "It's about time for a stall warning," the officials put a stall on within the next 10 seconds (or a shot or turnover occurred). It was nice to know that my internal clock matched up well with some of the top officials.

[TexOle]

First of all the 4 second goalie and the 10 second counts are visible. Cost might be an issue for a clock, but you can always steal the basketball teams. The other thing to remember is that most people running the clocks and books are volunteers. You want to keep their job to a minimum. All that being said adding the shot clock is stupid. There is enough parity in the league that adding a shot clock will add time to the overall length of the game and probably more lopsided games. Is this something people really want?

[LaxRef]

First of all the 4 second goalie and the 10 second counts are visible. Cost might be an issue for a clock, but you can always steal the basketball teams.

We do have visible counts, and they are highly variable. I practice my counts with a stopwatch at the beginning of each season, and I find it is almost impossible to count too fast (you can do it, but your arm has to fly). It really bugs me that there's no standardization on this point.

Secondly, I hope you're joking, because there's no way any NCAA basketball team is lending a shot clock to an MDIA lacrosse team.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Cost might be an issue for a clock, but you can always steal the basketball teams.

Better steal a couple reallllllllyyyyyyyyy loooongggggggg extension cords too.

[LaxRef]

Cost might be an issue for a clock, but you can always steal the basketball teams.

Better steal a couple reallllllllyyyyyyyyy loooongggggggg extension cords too.

Can we mount the shot clock over the goal like they do in basketball?