Simultaneous Fouls?

[Cornfield Sailor]

First of all I would like to express my appreciation for the folks that participate and make this forum possible. I find it a useful tool to improve my rules knowledge and have learned a lot from the discussions.

Here is the situation: A1 is moving the ball over the midfield line towards B’s goal and is slashed by B1 resulting in a flag down. About 5 seconds later, A1 passes to A2 in the right side of the box near GLE. As A2 drives behind the goal he is called for a ward. The whistle is blown and play stops.

Here’s how the penalty was applied: Ward by A2 stopped play. B1 served 1 min for slash. Possession awarded to team B outside the box.

It seems the more appropriate penalty enforcement should have been in accordance with simultaneous fouls. A2 has possession, commits technical foul (ward) therefore no time served. B1 serves 1 min for slash. Team A is awarded possession because they incur less penalty time. Ball is put into play 20 yards laterally from the goal.

So…I welcome any comments as to the correct penalty enforcement. Thanks for your help.

[LaxRef]

First of all I would like to express my appreciation for the folks that participate and make this forum possible. I find it a useful tool to improve my rules knowledge and have learned a lot from the discussions.

Here is the situation: A1 is moving the ball over the midfield line towards B’s goal and is slashed by B1 resulting in a flag down. About 5 seconds later, A1 passes to A2 in the right side of the box near GLE. As A2 drives behind the goal he is called for a ward. The whistle is blown and play stops.

Here’s how the penalty was applied: Ward by A2 stopped play. B1 served 1 min for slash. Possession awarded to team B outside the box.

It seems the more appropriate penalty enforcement should have been in accordance with simultaneous fouls. A2 has possession, commits technical foul (ward) therefore no time served. B1 serves 1 min for slash. Team A is awarded possession because they incur less penalty time. Ball is put into play 20 yards laterally from the goal.

So…I welcome any comments as to the correct penalty enforcement. Thanks for your help.

You are correct. The ward by A2 merely ends the flag down without awarding possession to Team B.

Simultaneous fouls can be tricky, and there are some rulings that are right that you would swear are wrong (e.g., loose push by B1, followed by slash by A1 while ball is still loose: A1 serves 1:00, B1 serves 0:30, Team B gets possession), but this isn't a tricky one.

Maybe some newer officials getting worked in on fall ball?

[laxfan25]

Certainly one of the more confusing sections of the book, but here it is so you can review on your own;

Simultaneous Fouls
SECTION 6. Simultaneous fouls are fouls called on players of opposing teams during (1) a live ball; or (2) a dead ball when sequence cannot be determined.

a. During a slow whistle or play-on, any foul committed by the team in possession (or entitled to possession) shall result in an immediate whistle.

b. Penalty time:
1. If there is no play-on or flag-down in effect and if all fouls are technical, the fouls cancel.
2. If the team in possession (or entitled to possession) commits:
a) Only technical fouls, no penalty time will be served by that team. (this was your example)
b) Any personal foul, all players involved will serve penalty time. This shall include technical and personal fouls by either team.

3. Releasing players shall be in accordance with Rule 7-2-d. (Here is 7-2-d:d. For the purpose of determining when a player or players may be released from a penalty, for all time-serving penalties called on players of opposing teams from the time the flag is dropped or the whistle sounds stopping play (whichever occurs first), until the sounding of the whistle resuming play, the longest common penalty time between players of opposing teams is nonreleasable, as is all penalty time of a shorter or equal duration.)
A.R. 16. During a loose ball, B1 pushes A1 from behind and a play-on is called. While the ball is still live, A1 turns and slashes B1. RULING: These are simultaneous fouls. Since Team A was entitled to possession, all players involved serve penalty time. B1 serves 30 seconds and A1 serves one minute, with the first 30 seconds of each penalty being nonreleasable.

c. Award the ball:
1. When penalty time is awarded and one team incurs less total penalty time than its opponent, that team shall be awarded the ball.
2. When penalty times are equal or all fouls cancel:
a) If a team has possession or is entitled to possession at the time of the flag or whistle, that team shall retain possession.
b) If neither team has possession at the time of the fouls, the ball shall be awarded according to the alternate-possession rule.
(See Rule 4-31.) (Exception: When a faceoff is pending in this
situation, a faceoff will be held.)
d. When play is resumed either by award or possession, field position of
the ball shall be provided for as in Rule 7-3. Here is 7-3:
Resuming Play After Penalty
SECTION 3. When a foul occurs and the ball is in the offended team’s offensive half of the field, the ball shall be put in play by the team awarded the ball, at the spot where the ball was when play was suspended or laterally across the field outside the attack area.
When a foul occurs and the ball is in the offended team’s defensive half of the field and penalty time is to be served, the ball shall be awarded to any player of the offended team on the offensive side of the field.
When no penalty time is to be served, the ball will be put in play at the spot the ball was when the whistle blew or 20 yards laterally from the goal.
(Exceptions: Rule 6-3. For live-ball simultaneous fouls where time is to be served by each team, the ball will be put in play at the spot where the ball was when the whistle blew or 20 yards laterally from the goal.) (This is about the only time where a team is getting the ball after a time-serving penalty on the other team where they DON'T get a free clear!)

A.R. 17. On simultaneous fouls, A1 gets 30 seconds and B1 gets one minute. Twenty seconds after play is resumed, B2 scores a goal. Is A1 released from special-substitution area? RULING: No. On simultaneous fouls, any goal scored during the shorter penalty time has no bearing in releasing players from special-substitution area.
A.R. 18. B1 commits a live-ball technical foul (30 seconds to be served). Before ball is put back into play, A1 commits a technical foul. RULING: B1 serves 30 seconds. Ball is awarded to Team B in accordance with the provisions of Section 3 of this rule. This is not a simultaneous foul.
A.R. 19. Team B commits technical foul (slow whistle), Team A scores. Technical foul canceled by goal. Then A1 commits a personal foul. RULING: A1’s penalty is enforced. Ball is awarded to Team B at center. These are not to be considered simultaneous fouls. Team B’s foul is canceled by goal.
A.R. 20. Team B delays game before faceoff. As Team A is awarded the ball, A1 commits a personal foul before the whistle. RULING: A1 serves one minute; Team B is awarded the ball. This is not a simultaneous foul.
A.R. 21. Team B delays game before a faceoff. Ball is awarded to Team A. Before the whistle resuming play, Team A delays game. RULING: Ball is awarded to Team B. This is not a simultaneous foul.
A.R. 22. B1 commits a personal foul. Slow whistle, Team A scores. A1 commits a technical foul. RULING: B1 serves one minute. A1 serves no time. Team B is awarded the ball at center. This is not a simultaneous foul.
A.R. 23. At the faceoff, B1 moves. Ball is awarded to Team A. Team A then calls a timeout, but the team already has used its allotment. RULING: Award the ball to Team B.
A.R. 24. Goalkeeper A1 is interfered with while he has possession of the ball inside the crease, possible play-on. A free clear is allowed at the center line, but before the ball is put into play, Team A commits an (a) Personal foul; or (b) Technical foul.
RULING: (a) Team B possession at the center line, and Team A is penalized for a personal foul. (b) Team B possession at the center line.
A.R. 25. B1 commits technical foul with Team A in possession of the ball in Team A’s defensive half of the field, flag-down. Before the whistle resuming play, Team A commits two technical fouls (e.g., delay of game and conduct foul).
RULING: First award ball to Team A at center and B1 serves 30 seconds. Then for Team A’s delay of game, award the ball to Team B at center, and penalize Team A 30 seconds for a conduct foul. The penalties on Teams A and B are nonreleasable.
A.R. 26. B1 slashes A1, slow whistle. Team A scores. Immediately after whistle, an official realizes that A2 was offside. RULING: The goal is disallowed. B1 serves a one minute penalty. Ball is awarded to Team A according to Section 3 of this rule.
A.R. 27. B1 pushes A1, creating a play-on. While the ball is loose, A2 goes offside.
RULING: Whistle is blown when A2 goes offside. Simultaneous fouls, award the ball to Team A.
A.R. 28. B1 commits a personal foul, creating a slow whistle. B2 then slashes A1 (second flag-down), who retaliates and slashes B2.
RULING: Official blows whistle, ending the flag-down, when A1 slashes B2. B1, B2 and A1 each serve one-minute penalties, which are simultaneous. B1, B2 and A1’s penalties are nonreleasable. Team A, with lesser penalty time is awarded the ball.
A.R. 29. B1 slashes A1, flag down. A2 then slashes B2, stopping play. RULING: Simultaneous fouls. Both B1 and A2 serve one-minute fouls. Ball awarded to Team A since flag down indicated possession. Both fouls are nonreleasable in accordance with Rule 7-2-d.

[Cornfield Sailor]

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback!