2008 Lax World MCLA Division 1 Top 25 Poll (4/23/08) is out

[Zamboni_Driver]

So would this be a good time to bring back up my position - that there should be more guidelines for teams that want to be seriously considered for the national championship??

If there's parity - raise the bar.

[nhoskins]

So would this be a good time to bring back up my position - that there should be more guidelines for teams that want to be seriously considered for the national championship??

If there's parity - raise the bar.

Such as...?

[CATLAX MAN]

You may not agree with it, but if history tells us anything, a loss to an unranked team late in the season will result in a drop in the polls. You can take that to the bank. It has happened in the past and I predict that it will happen again. It has nothing to do with east coast, SELC, WCLL or any other excuse you want to label it with.

[Zamboni_Driver]

So would this be a good time to bring back up my position - that there should be more guidelines for teams that want to be seriously considered for the national championship??

If there's parity - raise the bar.

Such as...?

I've mentioned these before, hoping that someone else has some brainstorming ideas...

Rule: Hopeful effect
4 OOC Games :: Greater comparisons (already in effect for many teams, but will separate out the fringe teams, forces team to perform on the road)

Must have OOC in 2 conferences :: allows greater indirect comparisons (again in effect for many, but not all)

OOC Game after April 1st :: gives insight to their progress or lack there of over a season, gives northern conferences the opportunity for home field advantages

Must make league tournament :: shows performance in a do or die scenario


Now who will patrol this...no worries...if there is a there is a team on the bubble the others on the bubble will point it out...so oversight shouldn't increase dramatically.

all need alot more thought, but I still would love to hear other ideas..

[StrykerFSU]

I agree with FLALAX. And, "Who are you going to move up?"

With BC losing at #11, they have to drop but how far and who gains? My sort of Top 15 looks like this:

8. UGA - SELC Champs
9. UCSB - "good losses" to ASU and Chap but how well are those teams playing?
10 Noma - bad loss to UCSB, big win over CSU early, no one interesting of late
11 VT - nice showing in SELC tourney
12 BC - bad loss, perhaps should be lower but which team from below moves up?
13 FSU - lost to BC, bad SELC tourney, beat UF, Santa Clara, UCSB
14 UF - bad loss to Auburn and loss to BC but wins against UCSB, UGA, Cal, Santa Clara

at this point I'm not happy with any of these teams:

15 Utah - Big win over CSU bumps them slightly over LU
16 Lindenwood - wins over Utah, Auburn, and UGA
17 TAMU - relatively unimpressive schedule with losses to LU and SF
18 Claremont - win over Utah in mid-March only game of note
19 UO - lost to every good team they played
20 Stanford
21 Santa Clara
22 CU - as long as these guys are higher than Poly they should be thankful

[LaxC21]

I assume that those rankings are you personal rankings?

I believe you have to be consistent throughout the season with ranking teams. In some instances people have said "when you lose you drop and when you win you stay there or move up." That hasn't been true for everyone this season and that is unfortunate because then you get into predicaments at the end of the season arguing quality loses and trying to justify late season loses against early season loses for other teams which in turn makes it look like there is a bias in the west coast or other conferences. I don't think that is necessarily true...most of the time.

I do believe BC is a top 16 team and probably should be there, but I believe they need to drop at least for this week. I think the interesting thing that I saw in the polls this year was voters seemed to hold back on dropping certain teams in the polls because they viewed it as a hiccup rather than a loss and dropping some teams for simply winning. In some cases this was true or justified, in other cases it just stalled in the inevitable fall that was going to happen or the inevitable climb that was deserved. I believe this resulted in hypocrisy in the polls and didn't properly reward certain teams for simply winning which is always a good thing no matter what the competition level is (i.e. - see BC loss to BU or in other words what would have happened had they simply beat an unranked opponent).

In any case, the great thing about human polls and something pollsters should remember during early season voting, if you are wrong this week, you can always correct it the following week...but stick to the basics...you lose you drop, you win you move up or retain your spot. It really is that simple.

[Ryan Turnbow]

I agree with FLALAX. And, "Who are you going to move up?"

With BC losing at #11, they have to drop but how far and who gains? My sort of Top 15 looks like this:

8. UGA - SELC Champs
9. UCSB - "good losses" to ASU and Chap but how well are those teams playing?
10 Noma - bad loss to UCSB, big win over CSU early, no one interesting of late
11 VT - nice showing in SELC tourney
12 BC - bad loss, perhaps should be lower but which team from below moves up?
13 FSU - lost to BC, bad SELC tourney, beat UF, Santa Clara, UCSB
14 UF - bad loss to Auburn and loss to BC but wins against UCSB, UGA, Cal, Santa Clara

at this point I'm not happy with any of these teams:

15 Utah - Big win over CSU bumps them slightly over LU
16 Lindenwood - wins over Utah, Auburn, and UGA
17 TAMU - relatively unimpressive schedule with losses to LU and SF
18 Claremont - win over Utah in mid-March only game of note
19 UO - lost to every good team they played
20 Stanford
21 Santa Clara
22 CU - as long as these guys are higher than Poly they should be thankful

I generally just observe but after this comment.......Looking at TAMU's OOC schedule (the only part of a schedule teams can control) against the SELC's ranked teams (namely FSU) it looks pretty good.

TAMU vs. FSU out of conference schedules:

TAMU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
-------------UC Davis----------------Away------W
22----------Santa Clara-------------Away------W
8-----------Sonoma State----------Away------L
24---------Illinois-------------------Away------W
5-----------SFU----------------------Away------L
21----------Lindenwood-------------Away------L
-------------Chico State-------------Home------W

FSU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
----------------Utah-----------------Home--------W
----------------Missouri-------------Home--------W
25-------------LMU------------------Home--------W
9--------------UCSB----------------Home--------W
22-------------Santa Clara---------Home--------W
----------------Northeastern--------Away--------W
11-------------BC-----------------------Away--------L


TAMU traveled to 6 OOC teams, 5 T25, 2 T10, 1 T5.
TAMU road OOC record:
0-2 vs T10 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, I know it is their own scheduling fault)
2-1 vs T10-25 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, see above)

FSU traveled to 2 OOC teams, 1 T25, 0 top 10.
FSU road OOC record:
0-1 vs T25

"Bubble" SELC (FSU, UF, UGA, VT) teams combined for a total of 0 OOC true road game T25 wins.

UGA had one neutral site OOC win vs BC.

Feel free to respond with anything I missed, I'm sure there is plenty.

[IndianaJones]

"Bubble" SELC (FSU, UF, UGA, VT) teams combined for a total of 0 OOC true road game T25 wins.

Georgia isn't a bubble team. They won the '08 SELC Title (& AQ) last weekend.

[Jeff Harlos]

Will BYU be # 3 in last MCLA top 25 if BYU

wins RMLC championship on May 3 before announce

MCLA tournament seedings ??


BYU beat good teams-- Colorado, Colorado State, and

Oregon




jeff
lacrosse fan

[DG]

Will BYU be # 3 in last MCLA top 25 if BYU

wins RMLC championship on May 3 before announce

MCLA tournament seedings ??


BYU beat good teams-- Colorado, Colorado State, and

Oregon




jeff
lacrosse fan

BYU will stay #4 if Chapman and Michigan win. UMD was awarded the UMLL AQ today, and will not play again until Dallas.

DG

[IndianaJones]

Saturday scores: CSU 8, Colorado 4 and BYU over Oregon by 10.

Oregon, Colorado, and Utah are all in the same boat now if they want to make it to Dallas. Win their conference championship tournament or they are on the outside looking in.

BC is in this same house. They have to run the table and take the PCLL's AQ to make it to Dallas. Another loss (regular season or PCLL playoffs) would push them down even further in the polls (out of at-large consideration).

[StrykerFSU]

I generally just observe but after this comment.......Looking at TAMU's OOC schedule (the only part of a schedule teams can control) against the SELC's ranked teams (namely FSU) it looks pretty good.

TAMU vs. FSU out of conference schedules:

TAMU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
-------------UC Davis----------------Away------W
22----------Santa Clara-------------Away------W
8-----------Sonoma State----------Away------L
24---------Illinois-------------------Away------W
5-----------SFU----------------------Away------L
21----------Lindenwood-------------Away------L
-------------Chico State-------------Home------W

FSU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
----------------Utah-----------------Home--------W
----------------Missouri-------------Home--------W
25-------------LMU------------------Home--------W
9--------------UCSB----------------Home--------W
22-------------Santa Clara---------Home--------W
----------------Northeastern--------Away--------W
11-------------BC-----------------------Away--------L


TAMU traveled to 6 OOC teams, 5 T25, 2 T10, 1 T5.
TAMU road OOC record:
0-2 vs T10 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, I know it is their own scheduling fault)
2-1 vs T10-25 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, see above)

FSU traveled to 2 OOC teams, 1 T25, 0 top 10.
FSU road OOC record:
0-1 vs T25

Utah is currently ranked #18, though I would have them a little higher. That gives FSU 5 OOC games (4-1) against teams currently ranked in the Top 25. TAMU went 2-3 in their OOC games against the current Top 25. Yes, TAMU's were on the road. Is that enough to move them above a team (Lindenwood) that has beaten them and another team that beat CSU (Utah)? I just don't see the "big win" on their resume.

[Ryan Turnbow]

Not arguing the rankings at all, I meant to state that in my last post. A case could be made for all of the teams in the jumble to be moved around & I've got sympathy for any of the bubble teams that get left out this year. Just pointing out that TAMU does the best they can with scheduling. I may have taken your "relatively unimpressive schedule" comment the wrong way.

Like I said, not arguing anyone's rankings this year.

[Ballaholic]

TAMU vs. FSU out of conference schedules:

TAMU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
-------------UC Davis----------------Away------W
22----------Santa Clara-------------Away------W
8-----------Sonoma State----------Away------L
24---------Illinois-------------------Away------W
5-----------SFU----------------------Away------L
21----------Lindenwood-------------Away------L
-------------Chico State-------------Home------W

FSU

Rank-----Team-------------------Site------Result
----------------Utah-----------------Home--------W
----------------Missouri-------------Home--------W
25-------------LMU------------------Home--------W
9--------------UCSB----------------Home--------W
22-------------Santa Clara---------Home--------W
----------------Northeastern--------Away--------W
11-------------BC-----------------------Away--------L


TAMU traveled to 6 OOC teams, 5 T25, 2 T10, 1 T5.
TAMU road OOC record:
0-2 vs T10 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, I know it is their own scheduling fault)
2-1 vs T10-25 (1 on 3rd game of a 3 game/3 day trip, see above)

FSU traveled to 2 OOC teams, 1 T25, 0 top 10.
FSU road OOC record:
0-1 vs T25

"Bubble" SELC (FSU, UF, UGA, VT) teams combined for a total of 0 OOC true road game T25 wins.

UGA had one neutral site OOC win vs BC.

Feel free to respond with anything I missed, I'm sure there is plenty.

you might want to note the fact that Illinois and SFU were both on the road too for those OCC games against TAMU

[gobblerlax05]

i think you might be right! but we still a neutral turf win over FSU in conference at Homewood field!