Top 25 D2 results for Poll #1

[Jolly Roger]

I failed to note that Southwestern has a number of D1 opponents on their 2008 schedule.

My evaluation of their schedule is not an indictment of the Southwestern program or it's coaches. I've met Bill Bowman, albeit, around 10 years ago, and believe that he has the best intentions for his kids and that program. He truly honors the game. I only picked them as a convenient example of the differences in scheduling that can have an impact on where teams line up in the polls. There's plenty of other teams in the same boat.

[BucLax13]

The reason why this happens is because we both have coaches that have been around for a long time, solid backing from the school and have the budget to fly somewhere warm. Many teams do not have these options or luxuries that SJU and UST has. Both probably have higher budgets then your average D1 team.

there is no doubt they are great teams... they always seem to start their seasons off well... I am not saying that their ranking is undeserved... I wouldn't want to play'em

but the fact that they have to travel early... and spend this money because they know they are going to be out something waiting to start their season is crap... it isn't fair and I am sorry they have to do it (good call by their coaches to make them competitive) I think we should kick the polls back and take pressure teams... it would get rid of the "cold weather bias" by only polling when there is enough information to make informed decisions... this would allow more teams to travel north later because they know they won't be punished for starting their season late... I know it might seem stupid but I don't really see a downside to this... someone please tell me why this is a bad thing

[culax]

I for one am extremely disappointed in the voters for the flux in idle teams in this poll. I don't know how teams can move up and drop so many spots with never playing a game.

Its good to see teams who have done well rewarded, but how the heck do you reward/penalize teams who haven't had the opportunity to play yet this season?

Did we have the same voters in both the preseaon and first regular season polls? I believe that Sonny is in the process of adding additional voters. If one or two failed to vote in the preseason poll and Sonny added an additional voter for the first regular season poll that could make a significant difference. Only in rare circumstances could I see a team moving up or down before they have played (for instance if multiple teams ranked ahead of you were upset, you might move up).

[scooter]

GRLC teams for example

Augustana moves down 5
Depaul moves up 2

Neither have played a game to date. So can someone please explain to me how the hell a team drops 5 and another moves up 2 having never stepped foot on the field? I understand some teams play warrant them to move up in standings and some teams to drop (Creighton and WWU respectively), but seriously, how did this happen?

[Pinball]

GRLC teams for example

Augustana moves down 5
Depaul moves up 2

Neither have played a game to date. So can someone please explain to me how the hell a team drops 5 and another moves up 2 having never stepped foot on the field? I understand some teams play warrant them to move up in standings and some teams to drop (Creighton and WWU respectively), but seriously, how did this happen?

It is pretty easy to explain.

Voter #1 really liked Eau Claire's performance while in NMU, and felt they deserved to be in there somewhere. Unfortunately they had to move a team around that may have been an idle team like Augstana or whatever. That probably happened more then once, and it is all about math.

[Cameron pederson]

The only polls to really take serious are the ones at the end of the season when we are trying to decide at-large bids. It is way to early in the season to really criticize pollsters when about half of D-2 teams have not played and most have only played 1 or 2 games. Pinball is right on the money in discussing idle teams moving up or down.

[horn17]

The only polls to really take serious are the ones at the end of the season when we are trying to decide at-large bids. It is way to early in the season to really criticize pollsters when about half of D-2 teams have not played and most have only played 1 or 2 games. Pinball is right on the money in discussing idle teams moving up or down.

agreed with my fellow UMLL alums...

[Rave]

I should mention that we do not receive a lot of funding from the school nor are we always on their priority list so Im not sure what luxuries you are referring to. Our team does fundraisers and dues that alone that cover about 95% of our budget. We have practices from 10pm-midnight in our schools fieldhouse (which was built over 50 years ago, nor do we have a domed field that we can use) and that is only if other varsity teams are not using it. Im not sure how it works at other schools in the UMLL or other leagues but Im sure someone can explain.

Id say the one reason besides playing top tier teams, is to extend our season. Two years ago we played 8 games in ten days against big teams (SJU, Minnesota, Creighton, Harding) in which we traveled to Nebraska. So our season was practically done in less than two weeks.

The polls will figure themselves out but I dont think anyone is punished for not playing early. April is where teams set themselves apart, I also agree with the Pinball and Horn as well.

And if you lived in Minnesota, you understand why we like to leave this state during the winter months.

[scooter]

It's pretty easy to explain.

Voter #1 really liked Eau Claire's performance while in NMU, and felt they deserved to be in there somewhere. Unfortunately they had to move a team around that may have been an idle team like Augstana or whatever. That probably happened more then once, and it is all about math.

Not a good enough answer IMO. Other teams deserve to move up, I get that. Creighton, UWEC, and others deserved votes. Fine, great, they deserved that.

But how does Augustana fall five spots without playing a single game? Creighton moved up, others moved up, that should bounce them back to 19, 20 at worst....... but how the hell does Depaul get votes to move up also without playing any games? This just makes no sense whatsoever. So can someone, anyone, try to rationalize this for me?

[Gvlax]

I don't buy the cold weather myth... St. J and St. T have done quite well warming up in the south and will stay in the top five barring some freak loss to someone besides themselves...

Laxpower doesn't matter...

SJU and UST have a program that is functioning more as a virtual varsity than many other D2 teams. Also in Minn and Wisconsin they have a lot more access to a full indoor field. Tell me the mileage from Allendale, MI to a dome like that. GVSU, from winning many football championships (d2) has finally started to build a indoor field so next year you will see more games from GVSU in the Feb month. Our program does not have the funding that SJU and UST has, but we are working to get there. Everyone knows that it takes time. We can not afford to travel the distances to these warm states so we settle for more games in the warmer Spring months (15 games in 30 days). Since we can not play games we focus more on conditioning so we can play that amount when our grass field melts off.

Trust me, our coach and our whole team wants to be able to take trips to Cali to play different teams but its not going to happen. Should this hurt us because we are going to be idle until after the next poll, we will see.

[Gvlax]

I should mention that we do not receive a lot of funding from the school nor are we always on their priority list so Im not sure what luxuries you are referring to. Our team does fundraisers and dues that alone that cover about 95% of our budget. We have practices from 10pm-midnight in our schools fieldhouse (which was built over 50 years ago, nor do we have a domed field that we can use) and that is only if other varsity teams are not using it. Im not sure how it works at other schools in the UMLL or other leagues but Im sure someone can explain.

not trying to play whose got it worse but we get a middle school gym... yeah.
I wasn't implying in my last post that your practices were in domed fields but if you count the domes in Minn or Wisconsin compared to MI i would bet there is more available to Minn and Wisc. then MI.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I'm not a voter this season, although I was for the past two seasons. . .and I can certainly attest to the fact that these first couple of polls are a guess. There are criteria you utilize (which were very well described earlier in this string), and from there this is a bunch of educated guessing going on.

But I can confidently say that I had no problem correcting my own mistakes, and rewarding teams that appear on the radar that are not expected to make waves. Dayton was the perfect example in 2007. Living in the Northwest, and with no history of success, I missed them like many other voters and didn't have them in my preseason poll. They EARNED my respect very quickly on the field, and in my final poll I had them ranked #4. It's not like college football where a team can't fall if they don't lose a game. . .if a team is ranked too low, and they show you your poll had them ranked too low, you move them up. It's very simple. If it means an idle team moves down a spot or two - no big deal. They'll play games that will determine their deserved placement.

It's not an exact science, by any means. You just hope as a fan that each voter is paying attention and taking time with their poll. If it is obvious a pollster is not paying attention, that is where I have a problem.

Example: Southern Oregon has played one D2 opponent, and it resulted in a close loss to University of Puget Sound. UPS has played only one game - the win over SOU. But SOU is ranked #25 in this week's poll, and UPS is unranked. In my opinion, anyone who has SOU ranked above UPS was not paying attention. . .and evidently there are a few voters who made that mistake.

Personally, I think they both should be ranked. . .but it is obvious someone didn't do their homework.

I think the process is fine, and doesn't need fixing. With everything, there is a certain amount of operator error - but at this point in the season it's certainly not worth getting your panties in a wad. (you know who you are)

[GrizLens]

I think the process is fine, and doesn't need fixing. With everything, there is a certain amount of operator error - but at this point in the season it's certainly not worth getting your panties in a wad. (you know who you are)

I love the smell of cooler heads prevailing in the morning. Thank you, Dr.

[scooter]

I think the process is fine, and doesn't need fixing. With everything, there is a certain amount of operator error - but at this point in the season it's certainly not worth getting your panties in a wad. (you know who you are)

I know I don't know when to leave well enough alone; but at the same time I think this is something that desperately needs to be addressed. Especially since the voters have already shown they drop the ball at the most crucial time (aka last years final poll).

The process in theory works, assuming everyone does their homework as you aluded to, but everyone does not do their homework and then they percieve to make bad decisions.

I would still like to hear one reasonable, rational opinion on how one idle team drops 5 spots, and another idle team moves up 2 spots. Call me nitpicky, call a whiner, call me what you like.....but this nonsense should not be happening.

[Zamboni_Driver]

I think the process is fine, and doesn't need fixing. With everything, there is a certain amount of operator error - but at this point in the season it's certainly not worth getting your panties in a wad. (you know who you are)

I know I don't know when to leave well enough alone; but at the same time I think this is something that desperately needs to be addressed. Especially since the voters have already shown they drop the ball at the most crucial time (aka last years final poll).

The process in theory works, assuming everyone does their homework as you aluded to, but everyone does not do their homework and then they percieve to make bad decisions.

I would still like to hear one reasonable, rational opinion on how one idle team drops 5 spots, and another idle team moves up 2 spots. Call me nitpicky, call a whiner, call me what you like.....but this nonsense should not be happening.

I usually don't jump in on D2 topics, but this is an issue of both divisions. I give this response and hypothetical to explain such an occurance. The hypothetical performance is given below for a poll period:

Rank. Team (Points)

1. A(50)
W
2. B(49)
W
3. C(46)
L
4. D(45)
Idle
5. E (39)
W
6. F(34)
Idle
7. G(33.
Idle
8. H(33)
Idle
9. I(32)
W

The next poll could look like this

Rank. Team (Points) [Previous Rank]

1. A (50) [1]
2. B (49)[2]
3. D (47)[4]
4. C(42)[3]
5. E (40)[5]
6. I (34.5)[9]
7. F(34)[6]
8. G (33.[7]
9. H (33)[8]

In my evaluation, it is not just rank - it is your total points. Points represent skill more than rank. Just because #10 and #11 come 1 rank apart doesn't mean they are actually close in talent. Someone has to be 11th, whether there is a gap or not. The same could be said, just cause you are 5th, doesn't mean #12 can't compete with you because they are 7 ranks lower.

(Now, if this was not the case, no one jump on me, I didn't do my homework on the specifics you are discussing, just pointing out such a scenario could occur)