May 2nd Poll

[scooter]

Yeah...but they also beat 2 teams that are in the top 10 (UA, CU) and 1 team that might be in it tomorrow (BC)...UMD hasnt beat any teams in the top 10. It doesnt make any sense to me to argue that, because they played close to 2 top teams, they should be ahead of a team that has proven that they can BEAT top 10 teams.

Actually, 3 teams: UA, CU and ASU. And BC.

Why do certain posters have such a hate thing against the Gauchos?

UCSB just won a very tough WCLL tourney without their Frosh middie sensation Ryan Sanders who tore his ACL in the ASU game. They made arguably the toughest 2 road trips in the country going to BYU/Utah and Colorado St./CU and beat CU at CU. They've played the whole season without Luke Shaw, their leading scorer last year, and George Granelli, their highest scoring middie, both with 2-3 years of eligibilty left. They played only 4 home games all year. (pre-tourney) They beat ranked Cal Poly rather handily at Poly, routed a hot (at the time) LMU team at LMU, beat CU right after CU swept AZ, ASU and Oregon on their fabulous AZ road trip. Nobody wanted to go the pit this year so UCSB donned their visiting jerseys and went 14-4. Sure they lost to Chapman. At Chapman when the Gauchos had already clinched the division #1. Chapman played a great game, but I would have liked to see the match if it had had some significance and wasn't Chapman's "season."

I don't know how the Gauchos will fare in Dallas. They could lose their first game, or they could make the finals. But certainly they deserve to be there, and the Championship team of the WCLL should be a 4 or 5 seed. Nuff said.

you can't make excuses for losses. Every team has had injuries and lost players. Also, UCSB has been around the block enough times and should know that every game counts towards the polls, and should never take a game off. To channel Herm Edwards "We play to win the game".

I never said UCSB wasn't a quality team, but in my mind, they haven't done enough to earn a top 5 spot. The back end of the top 10 seems more fitting

also, the champion of the WCLL shouldn't automatically be given the 4-5 seed. I don't know where this notion of entitlement comes from, but its ridiculous

[Ravaging Beast]

Scooter
I have looked back at your posts in this thread, and have been trying to find out what your objectives are. It seems like your two sentence posts say UCSB was crushed by Chapman so UMD should be #4. There is very little explanation. I have yet to see any predictions for your top ten or any legitimate reasons why UCSB should stay in the same spot they were in when the last poll was released. Since the last poll, they have defeated Cal by a decent margin and beaten Arizona in the WCLL championships. UCSB has not been known for blowing teams out in the past mainly because of the type of offense they run under Mike Allan.

I think Woda has put together one of the best polls in this tread. Posting in tiers makes sense. There are no legitimate arguments this year for teams out of the top three to have a single spot solidified. So it seems like you are talking about the second tier (4-7). Woda didn't include UMD in it, but I do. I was skeptical at the start of the season, but I have warmed up to them. So I say, depending on what happens with CU this weekend, #4 UCSB, #5 UMD, #6 Arizona, #7 CU. Swap CU to #4 if they win it all this weekend.

[scooter]

in regards to Woda's rankings, he had UCSB at 4, yet failed to include their loss to Chapman in his argument.

As far as my poll, it may sound cowardly, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't do a top 10 without screwing up somewhere.

As far as where to rank UCSB, I think that having them in the 6-10 range would be fine, but it all honesty, I think UMD should be ranked higher than them. I'm not sure if they deserve the 4 spot, having no wins to deserve it, but then again, I see no one else who deserves it more. All of the top 10 have lost to the Big 3, its just that UMD has lost the least, if that makes sense.

[Beta]

All of the top 10 have lost to the Big 3, its just that UMD has lost the least, if that makes sense.

UMD losing the fewest to the top 3 is definitely an "ace" in their hand...but also (IMHO) it has to be considered who they've defeated as well.

They = Anyone in the top 10, or ranked for that matter.

[WestCoastLax15]

All of the top 10 have lost to the Big 3, its just that UMD has lost the least, if that makes sense.

UMD losing the fewest to the top 3 is definitely an "ace" in their hand...but also (IMHO) it has to be considered who they've defeated as well.

They = Anyone in the top 10, or ranked for that matter.

What about ASU, they are the only team other than Oregon and BYU to beat a team in the "Big 3" and not lose to a team outside of the Top 10... I don't hear them talking about their loss to Colorado as something that helps their resume. UMD and ASU are similar this year in that they are not traditional powers and need to use this season's results to raise their ranking. ASU has some big wins and some close losses to good teams. UMD simply has close losses to good teams.

This whole conversation about the value of a loss is rediculous. If you lose, quite simply, you lose. This talk earlier about goals being taken away and refs influencing games is nonsense and they are excuses. I think we all know that excuses are like assholes, we've all got one and they all stink.

IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BEST, THEN BEAT THE BEST, DON'T JUST LOSE BY 1.

[Timbalaned]

First off, I don't see why people are getting so worked up about the difference to the 4th to 6th or 7th seed. Of all years, this year is one that even #1 is vulnerable and all teams will have to be at their best no matter what game it is to win it all. That being said, I don't really see why there should be much of a change in the next poll from this one. My new poll would look like this.

1) Winner of RMLC (Most Likely BYU or CSU)
2) Oregon ( A loss is a loss and either BYU or CSU has to lose)
3) 2nd Place of RMLC (Other one of BYU or CSU)
4) CU - higher if they knock off BYU or CSU
5) UMD - haven't seen them, but from what I hear they play good ball
6) Michigan - could be overrated here, but can't really knock them
7) UCSB - Huge wins, won WCLL (clearly on a down year), but loss to Chapman is too much to overlook
8 ) Zona - great win agains Noma, loss to SB
9) ASU - tough to play UCSB in first round
10) BC - don't make me regret thinking you guys can play
11) Noma - clearly not their best year, but still a good team
12) Georgia - Won SELC
13) UF - Strong team and I have liked them all year
14) Lindenwood - not the strongest conference
15) Northeastern - Tough last game, but still should dance
16) Texas A&M - come on LSA

[Timbalaned]

and obviously, i didnt look that this was for the poll tomorrow, but i think that is what is going to look like in the end, but for tomorrow, Make the top 4 BYU, CSU, Oregon, CU

[laxalum16]

Timbalaned's poll looks exactly like what i would draw up. I was never making an argument that UMD should be in the top 5, but that they should fall for playing a great season(less the Utah loss) and dominating their albeit weak league seems absurd.

[Rudyfan]

First off, I don't see why people are getting so worked up about the difference to the 4th to 6th or 7th seed. Of all years, this year is one that even #1 is vulnerable and all teams will have to be at their best no matter what game it is to win it all. That being said, I don't really see why there should be much of a change in the next poll from this one. My new poll would look like this.

1) Winner of RMLC (Most Likely BYU or CSU)
2) Oregon ( A loss is a loss and either BYU or CSU has to lose)
3) 2nd Place of RMLC (Other one of BYU or CSU)
4) CU - higher if they knock off BYU or CSU
5) UMD - haven't seen them, but from what I hear they play good ball
6) Michigan - could be overrated here, but can't really knock them
7) UCSB - Huge wins, won WCLL (clearly on a down year), but loss to Chapman is too much to overlook
8 ) Zona - great win agains Noma, loss to SB
9) ASU - tough to play UCSB in first round
10) BC - don't make me regret thinking you guys can play
11) Noma - clearly not their best year, but still a good team
12) Georgia - Won SELC
13) UF - Strong team and I have liked them all year
14) Lindenwood - not the strongest conference
15) Northeastern - Tough last game, but still should dance
16) Texas A&M - come on LSA

I just don't see how you justify Colorado ahead of UCSB. UCSB beat Colorado at Colorado. And no WCLL team in the top 6 teams? And UMD is at 5 because they beat whom? You sound like another with an anti-WCLL bias. As for UCSB, why is the Chapman loss so hard to overlook? Top 15 team (if ranked) playing their last game of the season at home? What team out of the top 3 doesn't have a "hard to overlook" loss? Silly reasoning, IMHO.

[laxalum16]

anti WCLL bias? how about anti WCLL sense of entitlement. UMD at five or six because they played a 1 and 2 seed to closer games than anyone else in the country. and why is the chapman loss so hard to overlook? because it wasn't a 9-10 game it was a 13-5 five game, pretty big loss for a top 5 team.

[Rudyfan]

anti WCLL bias? how about anti WCLL sense of entitlement. UMD at five or six because they played a 1 and 2 seed to closer games than anyone else in the country. and why is the chapman loss so hard to overlook? because it wasn't a 9-10 game it was a 13-5 five game, pretty big loss for a top 5 team.

Just for kicks, can you please list the ranked teams that UMD has defeated this year, and their ranking at the time they beat them? You seem to dwell on the Chapman game solely. How about looking at the top ten teams beaten by UMD and UCSB? The Gauchos have beaten Colorado (#5), ASU (#4), Arizona (#7). Also, BC (#25), Cal Poly (#15) and LMU (#18?) OK, your turn.

[Woda]

anti WCLL bias? how about anti WCLL sense of entitlement. UMD at five or six because they played a 1 and 2 seed to closer games than anyone else in the country. and why is the chapman loss so hard to overlook? because it wasn't a 9-10 game it was a 13-5 five game, pretty big loss for a top 5 team.

Just for kicks, can you please list the ranked teams that UMD has defeated this year, and their ranking at the time they beat them? You seem to dwell on the Chapman game solely. How about looking at the top ten teams beaten by UMD and UCSB? The Gauchos have beaten Colorado (#5), ASU (#4), Arizona (#7). Also, BC (#25), Cal Poly (#15) and LMU (#18?) OK, your turn.

Refer back to my post under page 4, it spells it out pretty clear.

[laxalum16]

Cal Poly ranked 10 at the time, and Lindenwood ranked 11 at the time. Poly by 8 and Lindenwood by 6. Losing to BYU by 1, CSU by 1, and Utah(urgh) by 1. How much did UCSB lose by to the top teams?? oh yeah here it is lost by 5 to CSU and 11!! to BYU. Gee sorry UMD is not able to play a WCLL schedule where they can play top 25 every weekend. They are in northern Minnesota. So playing the top 2 teams to one goal games (when nobody else does), then they have to play UMLL teams and beat them by 20 is no small feat. When did winning the WCLL means you have to be in the top 5? Are there some new bylaws i haven't seen?

[Timbalaned]

I can have CU over UCSB pretty easy... that game was over a month ago. And though there are no WCLL teams in the top 6, there are still 3 in the top 10, which minus the RMLC, is the most by far from any other conference. It has been noted by a lot of people that the WCLL is having a down year and I will have to tend to agree. Don't get me wrong, I think UCSB is a good team, but they are in no way as dominating as they have been in the past 3 or 4 years. Noma, Zona, and ASU all beat up on each other and have lost some key games. I think they are all good teams, but not as good as past years. I don't get why it is so hard to believe for some people that other teams are getting better and some teams are just not as good as the past. There is no doubt in my mind that a team from the WCLL could make a run at nationals and win it all, but right now, I personally just don't think they should be in the top 5, but by all means they are top 10 teams. And also like i said before, all the pickering for 4-8 is pointless, clearly those teams will be dancing, at what position? who cares, all the games are going to be hard. Bring your best.

[anklebreaker]

Personally I don't care where our team ends up because I know we are a good team and we know we're a good team. But you play the schedule you have to play. Don't you think I would like to play a whole game in the UMLL?? (4 times in 3 years all against the U of M) Of course I would but that's not the way it happens to be. Cal Poly was 10th and LU was 11th when we played them here in Minnesota, the first time anyone has ever came here to play us. We have to travel to play our games because of our weather and because people don't want to come to Minnesota to play one game, let alone two teams coming here to play a round robin. I would have loved to play the schedule that CSU or BYU or UCSB or Oregon has, but we simply can't because of our geographical location and the money it costs to travel. This is very similar to NU and BC. But to criticize a team because they don't play the in house schedule, such as the UCSB, ASU, NOMA, CSU, BYU seems unfair. I think that this year's tourney will be the best that it has ever been and the parody in our league is a GREAT for OUR league! Lets just stop this bickering over something that none of us have control over because it's truly a waste of breath.