Should the 2 FSU D2 losses count?

[CyLaxKeeper00]

Let's just throw the whole thing out and call those FSU games against D2 competition as scrimmages ala Colorado College.

[CATLAX MAN]

For example, CATLAX MAN, how is playing two teams ranked in the top 10 in D2 going to leave FSU unprepared for the National Tourney?

The D2/D3 teams approach these "games" with a much different agenda than does an MDIA team. For example, yesterday Wesleyan played BYU and it was reported on another forum that Wesleyan played all 42 of their players including all 4 goalies. BYU, on the other hand, mostly played their regulars. It's also not only in who plays, but the level of intensity when there is something on the line when 2 MDIA teams play each other, especially those teams who are rated. When you get to the tourney, having a number of these types of games under your belt is invaluable experience. That should be readily obvious.

As I said before, it has nothing to do with FSU and not wanting to play them. It's the fact that economics and tourney preparation will dictate that a team get the best schedule they can within their budget. Spending that kind of money and only getting one top rated team on the schedule is not going to attract the traditional powers in the Top 10.

[StrykerFSU]

I don't know who played for CW Post but I can say that whether they played the whole team or not it was a valuable experience for FSU. I would venture to say that from top to bottom Post is superior to anyone in the MDIA, even those sanctified western teams. Of course there is no way to evaluate this but it is my opinion.

Spending that kind of money and only getting one top rated team on the schedule is not going to attract the traditional powers in the Top 10.

I'm not sure what money you are talking about or what that has to do with attracting Top 10 competition. My point was that FSU was doing it's best to play the most difficult schedule possible, which I'll point out again seemed to work pretty well last year.

But my original question remains. This thread started as a debate as to whether their D2 losses should affect their ranking so I reiterate,

If a game is against a team not in the MDIA how can you argue that the result should be counted in the MDIA poll?

[Bluevelvet]

Stryker-
You should read all the posts. If you had, you would have learned that my proposal to count D2 games was tongue in cheek. Calm down.
I wanted a debate on easy schedule/good record vs. tough schedule/more losses.
I'm pretty sure that Catlaxman was referring to the money spent to travel to Florida with little return because there is only one top 10 game, FSU.

[StrykerFSU]

Tongue in cheek?

Two FSU multigoal losses, should they count?
The situation is really irritating. FSU plays no one and wins. They play a D2 team and get crushed. Now, they argue that the D2 team is better than all the MDIA teams so their miserable performance should not be a indicator of how they would do against a top MDIA team. Why shouldn't those games count? They don't play anyone else of consequence except #9 BYU.
How can FSU be judged if the the only decent team they play is a D2 team that beats them like a drum. The D2 games should count against FSU just like the no opposition victories count.
This is a typical take no chances schedule. They have a built in excuse for their losses but face no meaningful opposition to truly gauge their team.

(boldface added)

Excuse me if I misinterpreted the tone of this post.

CATLAX MAN, I understand your point about the cost of travelling not balancing with the benefit of only one meaningful game, it's a good one.

[Bluevelvet]

I thought it was "A Modest Proposal". Sorry you misunderstood.
Maybe you didn't read this post or Jonathan Swift.

When I started this thread, I attempted to open a conversation on weak schedules with good records vs. tough schedules with a few losses. Maybe I went overboard playing devil's advocate about FSU. I wasn't totally serious about counting FSU's losses to the D2 teams. I was trying to make a point. Sorry.
I did not want to start an east vs. west argument.
But in answer to Oaks, if a team such as UCSB or Sonoma went to the SELC on their big trip, I'm afraid that they would be open to the same criticism as FSU.
If a top 5 or top 10 California team goes to Utah or Colorado they can get their choice of 3 maybe 4 top 10 games. If a RMLC team comes to CA, they get warmer weather (usually) and their choice of 3 or 4 top 10 games.
You can't get that anywhere else except the Michigan Invitational.

[peanut21]

During regular season play, ALL games for EVERY team in EVERY conference should count no matter what division they are in. If a team doesn't want them to count, win or lose, then don't schedule the game during REGULAR season play. I mean, when UF played Plattsburg a couple of years ago, it counted, and not for the better to UF. Perhaps, to test their wings, teams who wish to gauge their growth in the sport, should play these teams during pre-season or post season or in the middle of the year. I mean come on guys, does it really matter at the end of the day. And as far as the POLLS go - we all know that those are a bunch of junk anyway! And when you get down to it, it is a west vs. east thing. Bravo to the person who gave credit to BYU and Chapman and others who have branched off, and have chosen to include the perceived (only by the pollsters who consistently vote in the west coast in the top even when undeserved) weaker teams in their schedules. We are all in this for the same thing, so can't we all just get along, play the game, and quit crying.

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[peanut21]

P.S. I believe FSU performed quite well last year at nationals if memory serves. So, for all that, the whole argument was for not. If you want to talk about something that matters, then talk about making sure that all players on all the teams are legal. I know about how this is not the NCAA and it is all volunteer, but to get to that next level it needs to be looked at very seriously by those in charge.

[StrykerFSU]

The polls most definitely matter for a team hoping for an at-large bid. Despite my apparent inability to grasp the subtle nuances of some of the posts in this thread, I do think that it is important that everyone understands how non-MDIA games should be viewed by voters. It would be tragically unfair if some voters counted these games while others viewed them as scrimmages. I believe they should be considered scrimmages in the eyes of the league without weight in the eyes of the voters. I don't think teams schedule these kinds of contests to try to simulate competition with the perennial powers or to draw any sort of inference as to their skill levels compared to other MDIA teams from the results. Some teams just want to schedule as many games against high levels of competition as is possible and that is admirable. I applaud teams like FSU that think beyond the MDIA even if their chances of victory are not guaranteed.

[CATLAX MAN]

I believe they should be considered scrimmages in the eyes of the league without weight in the eyes of the voters.

I'm pretty certain that this is exactly how the voters treat these games.

[laxfan25]

Since the original question was "Should FSU's games against D2 schools count?", my poll answert is no, since no other team counts their D3 games in their USLIA records. All the rest is just griping about their schedule. It is what it is, and they represented well at Blaine last year, so let's just wait until Dallas and prove everything on the field.

[onpoint]

CSU is 1-2 in their varsity games and their record reflects that. Regardless of whether or not poll voters take those games into account, they still happen and count towards the won-loss totals of the teams that play them. All of our varsity games have been "games" with three officials and both teams playing to win. If the game is listed as a scrimmage, than it is another story.

[semilaxed]

These games against these d2's are favors to the other teams. When Mars Hill came down they were on there way to st leos in tampa. CW Post and Bryant were already in Fl anyway. Playing FSU is a way of getting the most out of there trip. These teams come down to play lacrosse, they don't get chances to go out and party on these trips. These games are positive experience for both teams and lacrosse.

Many of the high schoolers that play here in Fl are recruited to d2 and d3 teams. These games are very positive exposer for these schools to a new growing area of lax players. Bashing these games is bad for the sport. Its all an ill attempt to make FSU look bad. If you are going to question a teams schedule you should do it before the outcome of the games.

Personally Im opposed to games like these but for different reasons. I feel playing people that you know are that much better than you teaches you how to lose and that it destroys a teams confidence. Also i have seen many cases of good schools getting key injuries in games that don't matter.

"You got to look good to play good" Mike Powell. Im taking it a little out of context but he did seem to be talking about confidence.

[BucLax13]

Would the games count in the polls if they had won?

[Hugh Nunn]

Two FSU multigoal losses, should they count?
The situation is really irritating. FSU plays no one and wins. They play a D2 team and get crushed. Now, they argue that the D2 team is better than all the MDIA teams so their miserable performance should not be a indicator of how they would do against a top MDIA team. Why shouldn't those games count? They don't play anyone else of consequence except #9 BYU.
How can FSU be judged if the the only decent team they play is a D2 team that beats them like a drum. The D2 games should count against FSU just like the no opposition victories count.
This is a typical take no chances schedule. They have a built in excuse for their losses but face no meaningful opposition to truly gauge their team.

I guess I thought it was more obvious than it apparently is that emails and postings fail to convey tone. I doubt many who read the above took it for tongue-in-cheek. All of the "BYU/FSU game of the year" comments were real classy, by the way. Were they tongue-in-cheek as well?


The topic in general can be answered simply thus: Don't be a hater. I don't remember anyone lobbying for the Whittier "crushing" (to use your term) of WCLL teams be counted in polls.

Sure, it would be great if the top 5 went on tour and every team in the top 20 - 25 got a shot. The reality is, that if a team doesn't have to travel to get quality games, why should they? It is more incumbent on the challenger to seek out games that will elevate their program. If Lindenwood were #1 for a few years running, you would see Sonoma travelling to play them. It's good to be the king. I think you will probably see Florida State in the West again in the next year or so, and hopefully more teams than Chapman and BYU will find their way east on a regular basis. Florida State will eventually be a perennial contender, hovering around the 4 -7 spot in the top 20, and consistently making it to the final four at Nationals. They will eventually beat other top 5 teams in both the regular season and at Nationals. Maybe even this year. That's why the games are freakin' played.

Any idiot knows that winning a National Championship means going through the cream of either or both the WCLL and RMLC. That same idiot knows that from top to bottom, the WCLL is the most dominant conference in the MDIA. What this idiot doesn't understand is the apparent need to "dis" all that is not WCLL when most reasonable posters grant the point to begin with.