Should the 2 FSU D2 losses count?

[wheelz33]

I agree FSU's schedule is one of the easier schedules in the top 10. Most of the games FSU has scheduled are at home. Maybe they couldn't budget the travel costs? I know their dues are much lower then some other teams this year. Paying to travel across the country isnt easy. I think FSU's schedule in the end will show if FSU will deserve to be in Dallas, which is the most important part. As CATLAX said, it may hurt them in the end playing in the tourny, not being used to the top 10 teams level of play. But all of you will be happy then. So just relax.

[wheelz33]

apparently i type too slow. sorry to kind of repeat previous posts.

[Bluevelvet]

Its hard to build up a tough schedule if none of the west coast teams are willing to travel out east for some games. Why should FSU and VT have to travel out west every year? You think D1 schools like UVA make teams like denver and air froce come to them every year? The west coast teams dont really travel that far. Yes the west coast teams play a tougher schedule but you cant bad mouth the east coast teams bc they dont want to travel out west every year. FSU and VT have taken the right step at a tougher schedule by going out west, but its the west's turn to come out east.

The problem with travel from west to east is that there are not enough high ranked games to make it worthwhile.
If Colorado goes to Florida, they get FSU and who else? So they have one game against a top 10 opponent and then get #10-#20 teams that are not as good as teams in their own league and California (which is closer).
I think FSU needs to start an invitational like the one at Michigan. Every year get top ranked teams from around the country to come to FSU and play, not only FSU, but each other.
For example, Sonoma St., Colorado St., Michigan and Florida St. If you could offer those three games plus good weather, I guarantee that they would all come.

[John Paul]

It's a good way to get good teams to come to you, but I think we need to be careful about adding too many of these three game in three day formats. It's a brutal weekend. You're not going to get any of the top teams to play in more than one, or possibly two, of them. It's a bit of a catch-22, but ultimately we get the highly ranked teams to come to us for two reasons:
1. We host a quality event with big crowds that is well run and feels more "big-time" than the typical club game on an IM field.
2. We travel a lot, and we often ask teams to gaurantee a return trip in exchange for us coming to them.

If you plan ahead and get gaurantees, and if you put some work into hosting events at home so that they feel unique and special, you'll stand a decent chance of getting the UCSB's and Sonoma's to come to you (especially if they know they'll get a good game that will help them prepare for the post-season).

One of the problems with all this, especially amongst the traditionally top-10 teams, is that scheduling is now done sometimes years in advance. For example, I can tell you where we're playing BYU for the next three years. You can start a new tournament, but chances are some of the teams you will want there have already committed their big regular season trip for the next couple of years.

[Timbalaned]

In our defense, I just want to say that we tried to get UCSB, CSU and Mich but none wanted to on their already brutal trips to california and I am not really sure why the UCSB game never materialized on our trip down there in a few weeks. But we did make the effort.

[OAKS]

The only top WCLL team to ever come to SELC land that I know of was Stanford in '01 when they finished national runners-up. Last year Florida State, VT and GT all went out to Cali. This year VT made the trip again. It's the responsibility of all teams to get out every once in a while. The WCLL has been represented with class by teams like Santa Clara, Chico and Stanford in the southeast, but otherwise there has been little interaction.

Currently the SELC has 3 ranked teams, with 5 others receiving votes. If you don't think that having the pick of 8 teams receiving top 25 votes is worth a trip, then there's something wrong. It might not be a few top 10 teams, but it's only going to be one weekend away from your 'worthy' schedule.

[CATLAX MAN]

In our defense, I just want to say that we tried to get UCSB, CSU and Mich but none wanted to on their already brutal trips to california and I am not really sure why the UCSB game never materialized on our trip down there in a few weeks. But we did make the effort.

Maybe because you guys are playing 4 games in 6 days could have something to do with it. BB will also just be coming off games against Sonoma & Colorado in that same time period. It's not for lack of trying.

[Timbalaned]

In our defense, I just want to say that we tried to get UCSB, CSU and Mich but none wanted to on their already brutal trips to california and I am not really sure why the UCSB game never materialized on our trip down there in a few weeks. But we did make the effort.

Maybe because you guys are playing 4 games in 6 days could have something to do with it. BB will also just be coming off games against Sonoma & Colorado in that same time period. It's not for lack of trying.

I think it is more the later because we would have dropped the NDNU game or Domincan I am sure for a game against SB.

[Bluevelvet]

When I started this thread, I attempted to open a conversation on weak schedules with good records vs. tough schedules with a few losses. Maybe I went overboard playing devil's advocate about FSU. I wasn't totally serious about counting FSU's losses to the D2 teams. I was trying to make a point. Sorry.
I did not want to start an east vs. west argument.
But in answer to Oaks, if a team such as UCSB or Sonoma went to the SELC on their big trip, I'm afraid that they would be open to the same criticism as FSU.
If a top 5 or top 10 California team goes to Utah or Colorado they can get their choice of 3 maybe 4 top 10 games. If a RMLC team comes to CA, they get warmer weather (usually) and their choice of 3 or 4 top 10 games.
You can't get that anywhere else except the Michigan Invitational.

[OAKS]

But in answer to Oaks, if a team such as UCSB or Sonoma went to the SELC on their big trip, I'm afraid that they would be open to the same criticism as FSU.

They would not open up the same criticism, as you will already have the wcll schedule, probably including at least one or two top 10 teams, and then another 2 or 3 top 25 teams. As well, since you are going to be a top 10 team, you will probably have at least one other top 10 team willing to come play you at home. Throw in a weekend in the SELC, and you have another 2-3 top 25 teams, with a top 10 or two team as well. Want to go even further? Hire a bus for 2 days, drive over to Colorado or Utah, sleep the night, play one of the RMLC top 10 teams the next day, and drive back for a fairly minimal expense for what you're getting.

Other than a trip to the Michigan invite, one trip to Oregon and one trip to Texas a couple of years back, neither UCSB or SSU has done much traveling outside the WCLL or RMLC in the past 5 years. Yes they don't have to travel much because people are willing to come to them and they have to budget for WCLL championships and the national championships, but there has to be some middle ground. Why not make a trip to the PCLL, GRLC, or SELC to start the season as a 'warm-up' similar to how d1 basketball teams open their season if they don't think it's going to be worth it for SOS.

[Bluevelvet]

You know what? You convinced me.
Maybe they will try it in the next few years. I think UCSB, UCSD or SSU would chose the LSA or SELC because of the weather.
It will happen eventually. Right now, they have alot of home and home commitments with RMLC teams.

[CATLAX MAN]

Other than a trip to the Michigan invite, one trip to Oregon and one trip to Texas a couple of years back, neither UCSB or SSU has done much traveling outside the WCLL or RMLC in the past 5 years. Yes they don't have to travel much because people are willing to come to them and they have to budget for WCLL championships and the national championships, but there has to be some middle ground. Why not make a trip to the PCLL, GRLC, or SELC to start the season as a 'warm-up' similar to how d1 basketball teams open their season if they don't think it's going to be worth it for SOS.

It's all about economics. Remember we are talking about club sports here, so money is a huge consideration. What is in it for a Top 10 team to incur the huge expense to go to an area at the beginning of the season where (1) they stand a good chance of not getting any games in due to weather and (2) go there to play teams that are not highly ranked? There is no payoff to incur that huge expense. Sounds harsh, but that is the reality. They can stay at home or go on a very short trip and play more highly rated teams. I understand that others may think it's not fair, but economics dictate it. The way to change the economics is to present a slate of games to make the trip worthwhile.

[Bluevelvet]

Something most teams don't realize is that California WCLL teams have to go to Arizona every other year (in the WCLL). This is a long trip requiring airfare and motel accodations in Phoenix and Tuscon as well as vans to drive between the 2 cities. Arizona teams have the same obligation but they usually have to come to Cali, every year.
Some teams rent a bus but it is a very long trip even from San Diego, which is the closest California city.
This is not an excuse or anything, but some information that not everyone is aware of.

[StrykerFSU]

If a game is against a team not in the MDIA how can you argue that the result should be counted in the MDIA poll?

Florida State schedules the likes of nationally ranked D2 programs for the express purpose of playing the absolute best competition possible. As has been said already, FSU went out west last year and I would imagine will return in the very near future. There wasn't any reciprocation from the western teams this year, outside of BYU and Chapman. And I resent the implication that FSU mishandled their budgeting. They stepped up to the plate last year with their trip. Why is the responsibility for cross country travel only on the east coast team? And, I can't find who it was now, whoever said that FSU's dues were less than the rest of the teams I'd like to know your source and/or any other evidence to support this claim.

The pollsters and all the forum dwellers can debate the value of D2 games all they want but I'm sure that their is an official policy. The fact remains that FSU continues to grow their program and made the final four last year despite their "weak schedule". For example, CATLAX MAN, how is playing two teams ranked in the top 10 in D2 going to leave FSU unprepared for the National Tourney? I guess FSU should just be resigned to the fact that they will never be able to play well in Dallas because none of the elite Western teams will come to Florida.

I really have a hard time understanding why some are so threatened by the success in Tallahassee that they have to constantly look for faults rather than be encouraged by the national growth of the MDIA.

[wheelz33]

Since I think that post is somewhat directed at me I'll try to clarify what I meant in previous posts. I am in no way slamming FSU, if anything I was trying to defend them. I never meant they were mishandling their budget. What I was trying to imply without saying it very well, was that it gets expensive to try to travel out west every year, so maybe they weren't willing to budget it for this year. And about the dues. After the tourny at Ga Tech guys got talking about trips and dues. I THOUGHT an FSU player said their dues were around $700. This is smaller then other numbers I've heard, ranging up to $2000. I think this subject should be winding down now. FSU may have a weaker schedule this year. But it is strong enough to show whether or not they belong in Dallas. The rest will take care of itself...