2008 Lax World MCLA Division 2 Top 25 Poll (4/16/08) is out!

[USTLAX06]

how UST got 2 first place votes is beyond me.

Because they are legit, because they have beat top teams for years including the current one and because they have one of if not the strongest win lists in the country.

[Matt_Gardiner]

why even play the game then if the outcome doesnt matter?

The outcome definitely matters and it is reflected in where I placed Creighton. I just believe from what I have seen and heard that Creighton is a better team than Dordt and that they played a subpar game by their standards (much credit to Dordt's defense).

I am not ignoring information. I am just weighing it in light of other information. The better team does not win every single game. The better team typically wins, but their are times it does not happen.

[Jolly Roger]

St. thomas losses to GVSU by 1 but plays a tougher schedule. I understand how St. Thomas could be ahead of GVSU. Dayton gets blown out by St. Thomas and still stays ahead of GVSU... very interesting pollsters.

Remember, a lot of pollsters keep their own poll throughout the season and do not start from the published poll.

If GVSU was significantly lower than UST or Dayton in individual polls, the win vs UST might not have been enough to raise their position to overtake UST or Dayton. As example from this season's NCAA hoops., When Tenn beat Memphis and then lost to Vandy, did Vandy move past Memphis?

I'm certain that the GVSU and Dayton game will be a thriller and hope both teams have the opportunity to showcase their talents in Dallas.

[TheBearcatHimself]

I can't speak for UC Santa Cruz, but I know that the PCLL teams do not get votes b/c they do not play any OOC games. We've been trying to get them to, but it's a struggle. Hopefully whomever represents the PCLL can do well at the NC.

It is very hard to give PCLL teams a fair shake because there is no one to compare them to. In the WCLL's case, either they play OOC (and ironically travel further than the PCLL teams would have to) or play several opponents who play OOC games. Because of this reason I had Santa Cruz in my poll but no PCLL teams.

I think a team that is going to surprise people alot is Western Oregon. They aren't getting much recognition but they are DEMOLISHING their opponents. It is hard to say they should be higher in the poll, everyone above them is legit, but Western O is going to put a scare into some teams at the tourney. They are a Senior heavy team with a chip on their shoulder, their coach breathes fire on the sidelines and they never settle.

[Pinball]

how UST got 2 first place votes is beyond me.

Because they are legit, because they have beat top teams for years including the current one and because they have one of if not the strongest win lists in the country.

Not too burst your bubble but according to laxpower UST has only beat 1 top 5 team EVER, and that top team was Dayton 2 weeks ago who's only Div 2 test was the previous day vs St. Johns. Voters are probably scared because the only opportunity they often have to see teams up close is a nationals and UST has not had the best showings.

I think UST is good team who deserves to be top 5, but slow down there MC with the LEGIT references....... 2L2Q.....

[gibertjs]

I have mixed feelings about UST's votes. They have certainly "proven" themselves far beyond GVSU or Westminster, the other two teams getting votes. GVSU really hurts themselves by not playing a tougher schedule. To be perfectly honest, I feel like Westminster is getting a bit of a pass this year. They haven't played any Ranked OOC Games besides Southwestern, and their ranking is questionable. UST has played the #2,#3,#4 and #6, in the country and faired well in all of them, and still has to play St. Johns. They certainly have a more difficult schedule than anybody else in the top 5, so they do have a valid argument. And how Dayton is #3 ahead of GVSU is beyond me.

[USTLAX06]

Not too burst your bubble but according to laxpower UST has only beat 1 top 5 team EVER

Thanks for the history lesson. Forgive me for living in the present, but all I care about is this year. Maybe poor UST will live up to the challenge of playing the "Dynasty" next week.

[scooter]

how UST got 2 first place votes is beyond me.

Because they are legit, because they have beat top teams for years including the current one and because they have one of if not the strongest win lists in the country.

So being "legit" gets you 2 first place votes? Ok, except they LOST to an UNDEFEATED team who is ranked behind them. I could care less if they thump on teams ranked behind them. Those are games you are expected to win. But they lost to a team on the road playing their 4th game in 2 days. In my opinion there are only 2 teams worthy of being ranked #1, those are Westminster and GVSU. UST got beat by a team ranked behind them. How the hell does that make you 1st place when said team is undefeated?[/i]

[exlax4]

It is nice to hear Dordt's name getting thrown around in this forum. We would rather it be because we are mentioned on the final Top 25 list of course, but I guess we have to start somewhere...
In the past 6 seasons, Creighton has beat Dordt one time in the regular season and one time in playoffs (we've only met once in playoffs). We also usually play fall ball games in which it is probably about even for wins and losses.
To say that we are Creighton's achilles heel is accurate. They go out and play some tough teams and do all right, but still struggle against us year after year. It is certainly one of our biggest games of the year and a good rivalry.
This season, we controlled them the entire game, bottom line. I am not meaning to tick any Blue Jays off by saying that, but it is true. I don't believe that they played poorly against us, I have played them a lot and am familiar with their team. They played their usual style and ability and were beaten soundly by our unranked Dordt team.
Pollsters can vote as they want, I just thought I would lay a few facts (and opinions) out there. Creighton is a good team, fun to play against, and has two very dedicated coaches who have helped that program and our league tremendously. Does Dordt deserve to be ranked over Creighton just because we beat them head to head? Probably not. Should Creighton be ranked as high as they are with the schedule they have played? The pollsters say yes, I say...

[Brew26]

Scooter everyone knows that GVSU is undefeated, but thats not the point. GVSU easily has the easiest schedule in the top 10.

So whats their impressive season so far, a one goal win against a team that also had 3 games that weekend and was away. The game could have gone either way.

If you claim that they destroyed the unranked teams they played, they did, but every top 10 team is supposed to do that.

GVSU deserved the 3rd spot in my mind but got the fourth. They are a top 5 team and will be going to nationals unless they have a bad loss which I doubt they will have.

[Gvlax]

I dont think you will find anyone at GVSU that will argue too much that they should be ahead of UST (Well maybe their parents who have attended all games) but the biggest question we have is Dayton at #3. The only teams both have played that are ranked was UST and their margin of loss was huge compared to our 1 point win on OT. My guess is that voters are still unsure of who GVSU is and where is Allendale, MI (Most people in MI dont know either). I know it will most likely be settled at the CCLA Championship on the Third of May (We still have 3 conference games left and they have a few).

All i know is that you better believe both teams are going to be scouting each other the first round of playoffs if both teams get that far. Should be a thriller.

[laxmid1077]

I think the poll is pretty good, despite a few of the controversies going around. I agree that GVSU does have the easiest schedule of the top 10, but I heard they also tried to get a few games with very high caliber teams early in the preseason but were turned away probably because of their 19th preseason rank, so not really their fault. Actually I can bet most of the teams that GVSU contacted are really kicking themselves for not scheduling them. I saw the GVSU St. Thomas game and both teams could have definitely played better, but in the end when it mattered GVSU put it away in under 10 seconds of OT. They have extremely talented players at each position which helps in tough games like that.

Like everyone is saying though, why Dayton is ahead of GVSU. I don't have an answer for that. Dayton losses by 10(?) to St. Thomas on their 2nd game of the weekend and GVSU won the game after three other games. GVSU should have gotten the nod for that 3rd spot. If Emory can take it to Dayton and beat them I'm positive GV will get that bump to the 3rd.

With the St. Thomas and St. Johns game coming up it could really wreck havoc on the pollsters and fans because if SJU beats UST we have a nice triangle of wins with GV beating UST, UST beating Dayton, and Dayton beating SJU. Dayton is also looking at playing GV if everything pans out for the CCLA tourney. At this point there are still some big games to shake up the top 5-6 range.

[gibertjs]

Plus #3Dayton is playing #6Emory POST-SELC Championship. Very Unusual, and I don't believe it was scheduled untill midway through the season. Maybe Emory decided it was a nice safety net if they fall in conferance play and still want to make the tournament. On the topic of OOC sheduling, does anyone know the rules? I know you are not suppossed to schedule Conferance games until your respective conferance meetings in the fall, but are there rules about OOC scheduling?

[laxmid1077]

I would assume that most conferences would like teams to wait until the meetings are done so any new rules or procedures can be used while scheduling the games. Not sure though

[Hi-Line Lax]

in the PNCLL we bring a list of our OOC to the meeting (or at least we're supposed to...) so we get them scheduled before we get our conference games. We also have more conference games than most, so I'd imagine everybody should be able to schedule OOC as early as they want (assuming everything works).