3/19/08 LaxWorld MCLA Top 25 Division 2 Poll Is Out!

[Ben Clark]

That to me, shows a biased vote, especially when they were ranked #19 the week before. That's a hell of a jump for no OOC games played.

How do you know the voter in question didn't have Elon #2 in their previous ballot?

[TheRev34]

Also metro beat a few ranked teams but lost badly to Colorado school of mines but yet is ranked higher. I believe metro should be in the top 25 but thought it was interesting they go ahead of a team they got handled by.

not 100% on this but i was under the impression that metro was without their goalie when they played mines

[dgr01002]

That to me, shows a biased vote, especially when they were ranked #19 the week before. That's a hell of a jump for no OOC games played.

How do you know the voter in question didn't have Elon #2 in their previous ballot?

Great point. I don't know that. I'm also not trashing Elon or the voter. They are very, very good - and I say this from firsthand experience b/c we played them. They are worthy of their current ranking.

My only point is that I do not think a pollster can justify a #1 (or #2) ranking with no OOC games AND their performance in 2007. There are probably a handful of teams within the MCLA D1 & D2 who are probably way, way better than pollsters can justify until they validate with OOC and T25 games. The reason Westminster and SJU are staying up top is #1 how they performed through nationals last year, and #2 they have continued their momentum thus far and would need to be de-throned. As teams like UST, Dayton, UVSC, Ft. Lewis (etc., ect.,) face-off against these #1/#2 teams we will get a far more clear picture.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

how will the PNCLL effect anything now with virtually no more OOC? They don't have a team in the top 10 now, they won't at the end of the year.

The real problem with the Div 2 poll is the number of teams that people think should be in the Top 25... narrowed all the way down to 47 teams for this poll. That is way too many and those teams on the bottom of that list have no business receiving any votes at all. Lots of conference bias and lack of OOC games is a factor, but so is common sense. Voters have to vote for deserving teams not somebody they just feel might do well.

Actually, WOU is going down to SoCal to take on 2 WCLL D2 teams and Claremont (UCI cancelled on them). . .

And we are currently working on two games between WOU and the RMLC. If we can get some things moved around, it will happen. I just wish WWU and UPS had some OOC action to grab the attention of voters. Those are two very good teams that are going to rely heavily on WOUs performance OOC.

Great job by Western Oregon taking on any games they can get -- even at the last minute.

[Gvlax]

how will the PNCLL effect anything now with virtually no more OOC? They don't have a team in the top 10 now, they won't at the end of the year.

The real problem with the Div 2 poll is the number of teams that people think should be in the Top 25... narrowed all the way down to 47 teams for this poll. That is way too many and those teams on the bottom of that list have no business receiving any votes at all. Lots of conference bias and lack of OOC games is a factor, but so is common sense. Voters have to vote for deserving teams not somebody they just feel might do well.

Actually, WOU is going down to SoCal to take on 2 WCLL D2 teams and Claremont (UCI cancelled on them). . .

And we are currently working on two games between WOU and the RMLC. If we can get some things moved around, it will happen. I just wish WWU and UPS had some OOC action to grab the attention of voters. Those are two very good teams that are going to rely heavily on WOUs performance OOC.

Great job by Western Oregon taking on any games they can get -- even at the last minute.

WWU plays Montana St. But that isnt till late April.

[woulax23]

WWU plays Montana St. But that isnt till late April.

give the PNCLL weekly preview a quick read, as this is addressed in the article

[James Foote]

Also metro beat a few ranked teams but lost badly to Colorado school of mines but yet is ranked higher. I believe metro should be in the top 25 but thought it was interesting they go ahead of a team they got handled by.

not 100% on this but i was under the impression that metro was without their goalie when they played mines

We were in fact playing without a goalie that day. We put a 1st line middie in the cage for the game and that definitely contributed to our goals allowed. We, however, had no good excuse for only putting up 4 points.

Many of the RMLC-2 teams remember the team we had last year... this year's team has almost a completely different look, especially on defense and at the midfield. We lost Trevor Minshall to CU and leading goal scorer Ethan Heritage. Our first game against Mines was the result of typical first year growing pains with new faces. Mines played a flawless game and I'd again like to thank them for hosting us on short notice.

It looks like our trip to North Dakota (for NDSU, UND, and UM-Moorhead) has been canceled due to being unable to get refs to Fargo during the week. We have apparently scheduled an additional OOC game with a Missouri team, but I haven't received the details yet.

Thanks to the voters for giving a first year team a good look. Next game on the schedule is Ft. Lewis.

[Gvlax]

WWU plays Montana St. But that isnt till late April.

give the PNCLL weekly preview a quick read, as this is addressed in the article

touche. Any clue to why those games might not be happening?

[TheRev34]

Looks like both WWU and C of Idaho are both cancelling on us the on the respective weekends they were supposed to travel to Bozeman.

We're trying to get some games scheduled in Spokane to replace the loss of those games (i think WWU is still trying to make the trip to spokane hopefully).

edited to correct the fact that the games were going to be on different weekends

[playlax]

Looks like both WWU and C of Idaho are cancelling on us the weekend they were supposed to travel to Bozeman.

We're trying to get some games scheduled in Spokane to replace the loss of those games (i think WWU is still trying to make the trip to spokane hopefully).

WWU better make that spokane trip

[Andy Sharp]

In case anyone is interested in the shifts, some interesting ones, other than those already pointed out.

Here are the big movers from the last poll. The first number is the change in points (each voter ranks their top 25 with #1 getting 25 points, #2 getting 24 points . . . the teams below #25 are based on points received), whether they went up or down, their new ranking followed by their old ranking (#NR means not ranked), and the team name.

196 More - #09 from #19 - Elon
127 More - #15 from #20 - Puget Sound
112 Less - #13 from #09 - Northern Colorado
103 More - #22 from #NR - Metropolitan State
086 More - #11 from #15 - Montana State
085 Less - #26 from #22 - Northern Arizona
084 More - #08 from #10 - Savannah College AD
079 Less - #10 from #08 - North Carolina - Charlotte
071 Less - #20 from #16 - Carnegie Mellon
069 Less - #17 from #13 - Western Washington
055 Less - #16 from #12 - Harding
050 Less - #33 from #23 - DePaul
045 Less - #19 from #17 - Grand Valley State
031 Less - #12 from #11 - Southwestern
030 More - #14 from #14 - Creighton
029 More - #28 from #NR - Missouri Univ. Sci. Tech.
026 Less - #04 from #04 - Dayton
024 Less - #07 from #06 - Fort Lewis
021 Less - #41 from #28 - Augustana
020 More - #25 from #30 - US Coast Guard
020 More - #06 from #07 - Utah Valley State
018 Less - #NR from #33 - Dordt
017 Less - #45 from #31 - Framingham State
015 Less - #21 from #21 - Central Washington
015 More - #35 from #45 - Eckerd
013 More - #27 from #34 - California - Santa Cruz
013 Less - #32 from #26 - Coastal Carolina
013 More - #38 from #NR - St. Edward's
013 Less - #NR from #37 - Whitman
012 More - #34 from #41 - St. Louis
012 Less - #18 from #18 - Western Oregon
011 More - #39 from #NR - Cal State Fullerton
011 More - #05 from #05 - Emory
011 Less - #NR from #38 - Hope
010 More - #29 from #34 - Davidson
010 Less - #NR from #39 - Sam Houston State
008 More - #37 from #42 - Northern Michigan
008 Less - #29 from #27 - Wisconsin - Eau Claire
006 More - #23 from #24 - Pepperdine
006 Less - #01 from #01 - Westminster
005 More - #42 from #NR - Ferris State
004 Less - #42 from #40 - Biola
004 Less - #NR from #43 - New Haven
004 Less - #35 from #31 - Pacific Lutheran
004 More - #03 from #03 - St. Thomas
004 More - #44 from #NR - Taylor
003 Less - #NR from #44 - Lewis & Clark
003 Less - #39 from #36 - Trinity
002 Less - #NR from #45 - Augsburg
002 More - #46 from #NR - Michigan - Dearborn
002 More - #31 from #29 - Southern Oregon
002 Less - #02 from #02 - St. John's - MN
002 More - #47 from #NR - Tennessee Wesleyan
000 Same - #24 from #25 - Colorado School of Mines

For those of you looking for an explanation of these shifts, other than simply a big win or loss, there is a hidden detail that became abundantly clear when for the first time I failed to get my votes in.

For this particular D2 poll there were 26 available voters and 8 of us failed to get a vote in on time. In order to keep the total point count at 8450 (26 voters X 325 points) the points received from the 18 who voted are extrapolated to equal that of the full 26. It doesn't take a mathematician to realize the ramifications of a particular voter entering 0 points and when it’s 8 of us from all different regions . . .

We are getting better; I believe I heard that in the last poll there were 11 missing. There are a few of us working in the voter forum to improve the poll and hopefully by the end of the season when the most important poll comes out it will be as good as ever.

It was my hope that by shedding light on this situation things will improve even quicker. I finally added the deadlines to my Treo, so if I fail to vote again this year, I'll kick myself out of the pool.

[Gvlax]

The real problem with the Div 2 poll is the number of teams that people think should be in the Top 25... narrowed all the way down to 47 teams for this poll. That is way too many and those teams on the bottom of that list have no business receiving any votes at all. Lots of conference bias and lack of OOC games is a factor, but so is common sense. Voters have to vote for deserving teams not somebody they just feel might do well.

I just took another look at the poll and i completely agree with what you are saying. Its crazy to think that some voters feel some of these really low poll teams who received only a few votes could beat even number 25 right now. Yeah people have favorites but voters need to decide if they think these low teams they are voting for could beat the top 25 that is out there now. Adds another worry to this whole system we have set up.