Lax World MCLA Div 2 Top 25 Poll (4/2/08) is out!

[Sonny]

LINK:
http://www.collegelax.us/news/?p=7182

[Gvlax]

Kind of surprised about how many teams got votes. Some teams that have not had good seasons yet are still making it in some peoples top 25. Overall I am happy just thought i would start a discussion.

[scooter]

Kind of surprised about how many teams got votes. Some teams that have not had good seasons yet are still making it in some peoples top 25. Overall I am happy just thought i would start a discussion.

I echo those sentiments. Not really surprised at the number of teams with votes, but more of who got them and how many. But this poll looks pretty solid all around I would say.

[Andy Sharp]

319 More - #06 from #19 - Grand Valley State
156 Less - #39 from #20 - Carnegie Mellon
150 Less - #18 from #10 - North Carolina - Charlotte
115 More - #12 from #18 - Western Oregon
111 More - #20 from #29 - Davidson
073 Less - #09 from #06 - Utah Valley State
067 Less - #05 from #03 - St. Thomas
063 Less - #16 from #12 - Southwestern
052 More - #23 from #32 - Coastal Carolina
051 Less - #19 from #17 - Western Washington
047 Less - #15 from #13 - Northern Colorado
041 More - #08 from #09 - Elon
038 Less - #10 from #08 - Savannah College AD
034 Less - #26 from #23 - Pepperdine
030 More - #13 from #15 - Puget Sound
025 More - #03 from #04 - Dayton
025 Less - #17 from #16 - Harding
022 Less - #39 from #27 - California - Santa Cruz
020 More - #29 from #NR - Appalachian State
018 Less - #14 from #14 - Creighton
018 Less - #32 from #26 - Northern Arizona
016 Less - #NR from #35 - Pacific Lutheran
015 More - #21 from #22 - Metropolitan State
015 More - #24 from #24 - Colorado School of Mines
015 More - #25 from #25 - US Coast Guard
015 Less - #39 from #33 - DePaul
015 Less - #50 from #35 - Eckerd
014 More - #35 from #NR - Central Connecticut State
013 More - #11 from #11 - Montana State
012 More - #32 from #45 - Framingham State
010 More - #32 from #42 - Biola
010 Less - #30 from #28 - Missouri S & T
010 Less - #37 from #34 - St. Louis
009 More - #04 from #05 - Emory
009 More - #37 from #NR - Dordt
009 Less - #45 from #37 - Northern Michigan
009 Less - #47 from #38 - St. Edward's
009 Less - #NR from #41 - Augustana
008 More - #02 from #02 - St. John's - MN
008 More - #30 from #39 - Cal State Fullerton
008 More - #39 from #NR - Maine
008 Less - #22 from #21 - Central Washington
007 More - #43 from #NR - Grove City
003 More - #27 from #31 - Southern Oregon
003 More - #45 from #47 - Tennessee Wesleyan
003 Less - #01 from #01 - Westminster
002 More - #07 from #07 - Fort Lewis
002 More - #36 from #39 - Trinity
002 More - #44 from #44 - Taylor
002 More - #49 from #NR - Rockhurst
002 Less - #48 from #42 - Ferris State
002 Less - #NR from #46 - Michigan - Dearborn
000 Same - #28 from #29 - Wisconsin - Eau Claire

I've been saying how good GVSU is for years, now they finally have a good OOC win to back me up. A good tip to those who might think you're under-rated.

I do think this is a poll that continues to get better as we get more games to gauge teams. Only 1 of my top 15 wasn't in the final 15 and everyone was within a spot or two. I did have some trouble placing teams in the mid-teens and like most of us, I bet, placing teams in our 20-25 range was a crapshoot with the list of Others growing, we dropped 2 (PLU & Augustana) but gained 5 (App State, Dordt, Maine, Grove City, Rockhurst). If you're not on this list and think you're a contender, it's time to work on your PR.

We still have a number of voters failing to get their votes in on time, some of them repeats. On miss was due to a new baby! Who knows what will happen with the rest.

[James Foote]

Not many teams moved for this poll. I'm guessing some spring break and conference 'mayhem' (see RMLC) had something to do with that. Davidson, Western Oregon, and Charlotte seemed to be the 3 big movers, for better or worse.

[Gvlax]

Not many teams moved for this poll. I'm guessing some spring break and conference 'mayhem' (see RMLC) had something to do with that. Davidson, Western Oregon, and Charlotte seemed to be the 3 big movers, for better or worse.

I would say GVSU's move trumped all of those three. Dont know about previous years but going from 19 to 6 has to be one of the bigger jumps.


As a non voter i am curious as to why some voters put Emory in front of St. Thomas who is in front of GVSU. All who beat the person in front of them. I feel so far St. Thomas has played the harder schedule compared to the other two but they did lose to GVSU. The toughest game for Emory beside St. Thomas was Elon. Just wondering if anyone was willing to share how they chose who they chose?

[James Foote]

Not many teams moved for this poll. I'm guessing some spring break and conference 'mayhem' (see RMLC) had something to do with that. Davidson, Western Oregon, and Charlotte seemed to be the 3 big movers, for better or worse.

I would say GVSU's move trumped all of those three. Dont know about previous years but going from 19 to 6 has to be one of the bigger jumps.


As a non voter i am curious as to why some voters put Emory in front of St. Thomas who is in front of GVSU. All who beat the person in front of them. I feel so far St. Thomas has played the harder schedule compared to the other two but they did lose to GVSU. The toughest game for Emory beside St. Thomas was Elon. Just wondering if anyone was willing to share how they chose who they chose?

Umm...wow...

My apologies on missing that. Helluva jump for you guys as well... Congrats!

I can't imagine how hard it must be to vote this season. There tends to be a decent amount of parity each season, but we're about halfway through and I have no idea how I would vote.

[culax]

[color=green]

We still have a number of voters failing to get their votes in on time, some of them repeats. On miss was due to a new baby! Who knows what will happen with the rest.

Thanks for remembering to vote this week Andy!

[btriley01]

I feel this poll is incredibly off. Fort lewis has only won 2 ranked games, CSM 24th and Metro St. 21, yet they are 7th? Savannah is 10, but only beat one ranked team, Costal carolina who just broke the poll at 23. western oregon beat #19 WWU but lost to #22 Central washington, and somehow they are at 12. How do you all feel about these teams? How did they get ranked so high?

[wapiti]

Good call on the above. I think the comparative scores, against ranked opponents, need to be taken into account. Some of these teams seem to be moving up by 'default', due to ranked teams ahead of them losing - even if they lose to teams ranked at/or near them.
Strength of schedule/opponents need to be taken into account............

[Gvlax]

I feel this poll is incredibly off. Fort lewis has only won 2 ranked games, CSM 24th and Metro St. 21, yet they are 7th? Savannah is 10, but only beat one ranked team, Costal carolina who just broke the poll at 23. western oregon beat #19 WWU but lost to #22 Central washington, and somehow they are at 12. How do you all feel about these teams? How did they get ranked so high?

Definitely all good points. Hopefully someone can share how they felt when they voted like this. I am glad i am not a voter this year after seeing each poll and how difficult it has been, but these points he brought up make sense. Might be a bit of riding off of last year success somewhat.

[Kyle Berggren]

WOU is well worthy of their ranking... They beat the number 19 team as you put it by 21-11 on the road (were ranked about 10th at the time). They had a let down the next day against CWU, which I look at as a let down, not a trend. I do this because I'm familiar with both teams. The same team went down to California & beat up on Pepperdine (previously 20 something) 15-2... 4-0 in the WCLL & tied for first place. Now Pepperdine is ranked at 26... The 2 teams should not be ranked closely, it was a 13 goal game... Rankings can't be based purely on who you've beaten, they have to be on the games played... If it was on who they've beaten your Harding team would not be in the poll. They're 2-3, with both wins coming against teams with a combined record of 2-9.... More than just the W's have to be taken into account.

WWU has moved down in the rankings because they've lost 2 games against teams viewed as "unproven" in UPS (us) & WOU. I've been in Dallas each of the last 2 years & WWU is still capable of playing there, & they are under-ranked. The rest of the PNCLL has simply "caught up" with them a bit. I would have them higher in my poll.

The team that is still missing is Whitman college. I'm excited to see how they do against WOU in 2 weeks, they are fully capable of playing with anyone in the top 15. They're well coached, just young. Their team will be interesting to watch in the years to come.

We can point fingers at a lot of different teams that probably don't belong in the top 25, but we still have roughly 40 teams getting votes... Obviously we're not going to reach a consensus.

[btriley01]

WOU is well worthy of their ranking... They beat the number 19 team as you put it by 21-11 on the road (were ranked about 10th at the time). They had a let down the next day against CWU, which I look at as a let down, not a trend. I do this because I'm familiar with both teams. The same team went down to California & beat up on Pepperdine (previously 20 something) 15-2... 4-0 in the WCLL & tied for first place. Now Pepperdine is ranked at 26... The 2 teams should not be ranked closely, it was a 13 goal game... Rankings can't be based purely on who you've beaten, they have to be on the games played... If it was on who they've beaten your Harding team would not be in the poll. They're 2-3, with both wins coming against teams with a combined record of 2-9.... More than just the W's have to be taken into account.


We can point fingers at a lot of different teams that probably don't belong in the top 25, but we still have roughly 40 teams getting votes... Obviously we're not going to reach a consensus.

Calling a game a let down is subjective, and therefore hard to take into consideration. You could just as well say, "Oh, GVSU only beat UST because UST had a bad day." Who cares. You lost, and it should be reflected in the polls. We lost to Dayton, we moved down a spot. I'm fine with our poll placement, I'm just unsure about the teams above us. Do you realize the only team I spoke of that has a game against a top 15 team is ft. lewis, and they have to play that game because its in-conference. They have simple schedules, Yet all of them have lost "winnable" games.

I sort of agree with using losses to show team strength only because of the sparse OOC top 25 games. Even so, the idea behind that is still subjective. We played dayton to 4, with most of the game bing a 1-2 point difference. Should that be reflected in the polls, cause it wasn't. I believe thats up to the pollers, but I would try to stay away from that idea.

PS we are 3-2, the Hendrix D-3 NCAA game doesn't count, and lax power doesn't have the memphis game up.

[wapiti]

Another example. UNC over UVSC, #5 at the time, 12-5. Then loses to Montana State, ranked 11 and one position ahead by 1 goal in overtime. They then drop significantly. Both these teams ranked above them, one significantly so. At the very least one should argue they should maintain their postion.
Or look at St. Thomas. A 1 goal loss, in overtime, and there is talk they are ranked too high. Here's a program that is there year after year.
On one hand there seems to be an effort to recognize the competition level - and the OOC scheduled games, but on the other hand, be sure to win the the games...........
The comments on Ft. Lewis IMO are accurate. The same situation has existed in past years with this squad.
A question. Are the pollsters that are coaches allowed to vote for their own teams, and if so, is this a good thing?

[MF]

I think the obvious answer is that is why there is more than 1 poll. There is no way to tell how good a team is until they have played all their games. In the case of Ft. Lewis they have a remaining games against #1 Westminster, #9 UVSC, and #15 UNC. If they are not a top 10 team we will know soon. It is hard to knock them for going 7-1 so far?