Do you want to vote in the Lax World MCLA Top 25 Poll?

[Zamboni_Driver]

The cornerstone of this league is everyone gets a chance to compete at a national tournament. Entrance into that tournament is based on the AQ and the At-Large - thus the poll matters on who gets in and how they are ranked when they get there. The preseason poll, whether it is correct or not, plays a large role in who goes.

The polls must be the result of open, transparent, and informed analysis and if they are not this is a bush league even if your jerseys match.

Now I never like bringing up problems without solutions. Simply the MCLA has to dictate the 2008 rosters/schedules be available 1 month prior to the preseason poll rankings. (Maybe this is the way it is, and no one has told me)

[Ryan Hanavan]

I think pre-season polls historically honor the great teams from the previous year and each successive poll shapes the new year into a legitimate product that will assist in at large determination in the end.

A strong schedule and quality wins will allow the current years cream to rise to the top. I don't think a team should hold a top spot if they play the minimum number of games against lesser opponents just because that was a pre-season award.

It's hard to put too much stock in new additions and returning players because who knows what they will actually do in the regular season. New start could emerge, injuries happen, and since we don't lock these kids in with scholarship $$ a whole bunch of other stuff could take place.

If one of the top teams covers up some losses and it ends up showing in the Win/Loss column then they should drop accordingly and be replaced by teams with quality wins against ranked opponents. Perennial powerhouses are just that because they have shown the ability to prove themselves year after year. Unranked and even other ranked programs should go after those schools in the regular season and get recognized if they beat them.

I wouldn't expect an unranked team that beats a top 5 program to replace that school. I would expect them to start getting some looks from the pollsters. I would also expect the pollsters to look at the top 5 team that loses (I'm just using top 5 as a generic example) and adjust accordingly in the next poll.

I think pre-season polls serve as a nice honor to the greats from last year and the up and comings for this year and should be taken as that. Each successive poll should be based on the "what have you done for me lately" school of thought.

That's just my opinion.

[Zamboni_Driver]

I think pre-season polls serve as a nice honor to the greats from last year and the up and comings for this year and should be taken as that. Each successive poll should be based on the "what have you done for me lately" school of thought.

That's just my opinion.

I definitely understand this perspective...

My rebuttal:

1. Team A has a great year and rises into the Top 5. They graduate a significant class and lose their coach. To honor them, they are put in the Top 5 preseason. They play and get beat by team B. Based on my personal feelings that the Wins/Loses against T25 should be frozen at the game, Team B would get credit for beating a top 5 team. Team A drops in the poll to 12, where they lose to Team C. Team A drops out, and loses to Team D. At the end of the year B, C, and D are all on the bubble to go to the tournament, B has the only win vs a Top 10 team. Are they more deserving because the preseason poll wasn't accurate and based non current information?

2. Team A again from above in the same circumstances plays a heavy Top 10 schedule, but doesn't play any 11-25. They win all their games against non-ranked opponents and lose all in the Top 10. Obviously they aren't Top 10, but couldn't one argue that they are still T10-15? I mean, how could you drop them out, the top 10 are really good? In this situation, if they were more appropriately ranked based on current team, they would start in the T12-20 range and would have a harder time sneaking into the tournament because of history.

The preseason polls aren't going anywhere - I'm just wondering how then they can be turned into useful polls.

[Matt_Gardiner]

1. I think a large part of the problem is trying to "freeze" a teams ranking at every checkpoint when they play a team. Teams change throughout a year. Young teams improve, teams lose players, teams have cold-streaks. You continue to treat the polls and pollsters as if they simply work off of old polls and adjust them. I do not do it that way and I do not think many of the pollsters do either. A teams ranking should become more and more accurate as the year goes on and a full body of work can be judged. If not a team that moves up through the ranks like BC or Northeastern did last year is not properly accounted for. If you lose to Northeastern in early March should that loss be more damaging than a loss against Northeastern later in the year. The team that lost in March could have lost against a team outside the top 15. The team that lost in late April to the same squad would have a better loss against a top 15 team? Everything needs to be judged individually. In Division 2 Montana started the year out cold and lost some games early on. It created a situation where Montana was arguably over-ranked for the first month and under-ranked after that. The victories or losses to Montana need to be viewed individually as they potentially had different meanings and weights depending on when they occurred.

2. If you are playing top 10 teams people will have a better idea where you stand. You may be a top 15 team, you may not be. Your schedule will be judged for what it is and an appropriate ranking will be made. Again, I do not believe that polls should simply be adjusted from the previous editions. I think every so often the voting individual's polls should be "blown-up" and rewritten. If you play enough top 10 teams you will get the publicity you need and people will have a better idea about where you belong.

[onpoint]

Good points, Matt. I also believe that we have 30 pollsters and each have their own method of ranking teams. Some may view it more like college basketball and some may see it more like college football. Some may view "body of work" and some may be "what have you done for me lately?". With the message board polls we've been doing basically mirroring the real polls over the last several years, I think it's been proven that pollsters are doing a pretty good overall job. If you standarize these things too much, you remove the individuality of each pollster and the real beauty of the process. The point is that with 30 people, the sample size is wide enough to remove any bias any one particular person may or may not have.

[Zamboni_Driver]

Good points, Matt. I also believe that we have 30 pollsters and each have their own method of ranking teams. Some may view it more like college basketball and some may see it more like college football. Some may view "body of work" and some may be "what have you done for me lately?". With the message board polls we've been doing basically mirroring the real polls over the last several years, I think it's been proven that pollsters are doing a pretty good overall job. If you standarize these things too much, you remove the individuality of each pollster and the real beauty of the process. The point is that with 30 people, the sample size is wide enough to remove any bias any one particular person may or may not have.

I completely agree.

I only deviate in that I forsee it becoming harder and harder for the pollsters to rank the team. Projecting into the future(5-10 years), a larger number of teams may be upset at the At-large bid selections based on the polls could cause a split in the MCLA. I see information as the way to prevent that.

[Jolly Roger]

If teams are not happy with the way our tournament is selected/seeded, they need to pass this information to the MCLA board of directors through their conference director.

Since the Board is meeting later this week, it would be a good time for all teams to touch base with their director and make certain their views are known on any number of topics.

[Dulax31]

With the pre-season poll being less then a month away, do we know who is going to be voting for it?

[Dulax31]

With the pre-season poll being less then a month away, do we know who is going to be voting for it?

ummm?????