4/11/07 Division A Poll is out!

[PSLguy]

On a side note, notice how no one is talking about UMD and the fact that they play in a weak conference. It's because they have gone out of conference and played 5 very good teams. What NU and BC need to do is host a 4 team tourney and travel to a 4 team tourney (which is what UMD does on a regular basis). That way you play a handful of quality teams and people stop questioning whether or not you are worthy.

Agreed, but due to the weather conditions in the northeast the entire regular season essentially has to be crammed into the month of april. This isn't that easy to do and schedule 4 team tournaments on top of it. Already this year there have been droves of PCLL games pp'd even in April. (not saying that UMD doesn't have bad weather, kudos to them for pulling it off).

Spring in the northeast is how god shows people that don't drink what a hangover feels like.

[scooter]

Spring in the northeast is how god shows people that don't drink what a hangover feels like.

Sidenote......got a nice hearty chuckle out of this

[bbandlax]

Because it's so hard for the PCLL to schedule more than one big OOC trip with a strong SOS, they really only have one chance to make any upward poll momentum.

I think this also means a PCLL team has to be very thoughtful who they schedule in their OOC trip. The first game of the season is usually the first time a PCLL team has even seen field lines and grass let alone another team. To schedule more top teams (the most often cited shortcoming on a PCLL schedule) they would have to entirely front end load that OOC trip.

This may be your biggest challenge, however it can be overcome. No one talks about this but it took a lot of work to get teams to come to BYU. Ask Coach Lamb what it was like trying to get anyone to come to Provo, Ut when he first took over. Who would want to come to Provo, especially when there was no one else to play (sorry Utah) for 500 miles. The weather is unpredictable in the spring (read Flips journals) and you could only get one quality game. Coach Lamb just decided he would go where ever, when ever to get a game. Eventually teams started to return the home games. With the improvement of Utah, and clever scheduling, teams now come to Utah and get 2 or 3 quality games (see UMD).

The Northeast has one great advantage, and that is distance. You can drive from one end of New England to the other in almost the same time it takes to drive from Provo to Las Vegas. With 2 or 3 quality teams you will get home games. But first you have to build it, then they will come.

A lot of western teams do have stronger schedules but I think you'll find that in most cases they aren't playing their 5 toughest games of the season the first 5 games of the season. (compare to teams in that same 10 to 16 range of the polls)

I know your talking about teams in the 10-16 range, but look at BYU, CSU, and this year UMD. BYU and CSU have had to schedule like that (top 25 games at the start of the year) for a long time. There is no way you are playing in the Rockies in Feb., and who wants to waste a road trip not playing the best competition you can.

In addition, I think in at least some of those cases other conferences' 2nd teams have been given the benefit of the doubt, something the PCLL has never had.

Because they have not earned it. Earn it (as you are beginning to do) and you will get the benefit of the doubt.

That said I think both BC and NU are somewhere 8-16 caliber teams.

Agreed, (maybe BC at 12-16) especially with losses by Utah, FSU, and Cal Poly this past week.

[UBlax]

In regards to the occasionally-reappearing complaint that one league has too much representation in terms of poll voters, here is the ratio breakdown in terms of number of voters per league (If you're not in the CCLA stop complaining):

RMLC: 1 per team
WCLL: 1 per 2.5 teams
UMLL: 1 per 2 teams
SELC: 1 per 3.2 teams
GRLC: 1 per 2.67 teams
LSA: 1 per 2.4 teams
PCLL: 1 per 2.5 teams
PNCLL: 1 per 1.67 teams
CCLA: 1 per 6.5 teams

I am in the CCLA so i suppose that gives me the right to complain...

But i don't see anything to complain about. Representation may seem lopsided, but i think that the voters are taking their jobs very seriously and take very careful consideration of all the confrences, not just their own.

i'd say it's more important to have the voters that will do the best job, even if that means a few more from one confrence and a few less from another.

[bbandlax]

The bubble just got quite a bit bigger with losses from Cal Poly, Utah and FSU. Even the loss by UCSB shakes the 10-16 rankings up. Interesting to see how teams like Florida, Georgia (who no one is talking about), Michigan St., Va Tech, and BC will respond.

[Timbalaned]

You can always schedule a trip to Colorado and know that you can get two good games out of it. If you just do that every year, you will at least know where you stand, you beat one of them or both of them and eventually teams will come to you.

I once thought there was no reason to go to Provo, until we did last year and I saw more hot chicks than any place we had gone, minus maybe UCSB. The chicks there are hot. Too bad all of them are married or engaged

[DG]

Given the above, where do you think both teams belong in the poll?

The season long movement of the top PCLL teams, perhaps more than any other conference in the MCLA, are significantly impacted by their preseason ranking. In most seasons there has been the perceived favorite somewhere 10-20 and then some years a second PCLL team 20-30 (using the "also receiving pionts") Because it's so hard for the PCLL to schedule more than one big OOC trip with a strong SOS, they really only have one chance to make any upward poll momentum. If you start the season out of the top 18 or so...there is little chance you will move into the top 15 even with solid OOC trips. In years past the second best team in the PCLL may not have been this good but I think recently, and especially this year, two PCLL teams have legitimate top 16 squads (IMO). Even with both teams going OOC and playing well, when these two teams play each other in a tight game the higher PCLL poll team is punished inordinately for a loss (even though it's a rivalry game with a close score) because the perception is (in this case) that NU lost because they aren't that good, not because BC is better than anyone thinks. And even if a voter felt BC was that good the idea of vaulting a team 8 to 10 spots in the polls is generally considered unreasonable. (even if you account for it with 5-6 spots for underanking, and 3-4 spots for the good win)

I think this also means a PCLL team has to be very thoughtful who they schedule in their OOC trip. The first game of the season is usually the first time a PCLL team has even seen field lines and grass let alone another team. To schedule more top teams (the most often cited shortcoming on a PCLL schedule) they would have to entirely front end load that OOC trip. A few bad losses early in their season (that may occur due to full-field rustiness as much as anything else) can really hurt their already delicate ranking and can't be made up for later in the season the way other teams with closer top 25 competition are able to. A lot of western teams do have stronger schedules but I think you'll find that in most cases they aren't playing their 5 toughest games of the season the first 5 games of the season. (compare to teams in that same 10 to 16 range of the polls)

In the past conference bias hasn't hurt the PCLL so much with only one legit team, but now this conference bias (as reflected in preseason rankings) could keep out BC, NU, or both if an AQ upset occurs. Obviously other teams from other conferences have had similar situations I'm just expounding on it as it occurs in the PCLL. In addition, I think in at least some of those cases other conferences' 2nd teams have been given the benefit of the doubt, something the PCLL has never had.

No one in the PCLL is saying NU and BC are CSU/BYU killers but they are legitimately in the next grouping down.

That said I think both BC and NU are somewhere 8-16 caliber teams.

You have just made the point I have been making for a couple of years...the preseason poll should have NO bearing at all on the first real poll. Moving a team from #15 in the pre-season to #12 in week one based on the fact that they won their first game is bogus in the extreme. The preseason poll is based entirely on speculation.

The fact is that the preseason poll has its place (nod to Sonny)...to generate interest and some buzz. It is fun. It is interesting to think about which teams have gotten better and which have fallen off.

The teams in the NE are at a disadvantage because by the time they have played enough meaningful games, everyone in the country already knows how good most of the WCLL and RMLC teams are.

IMO BC and NU should probably both be somewhere between 10-15. Given what has happened in the past couple weeks, my guess is that they will be #14 and #15 in the next poll. If they both keep winning, and they meet in a close game in the PCLL championships, one of them might have a shot at an at-large bid.

Of course, if there's an upset in the conference tournament anywhere (e.g. Michigan State over Michigan last year) then all bets are off for ALL of the bubble teams.

DG

[PSLguy]

The Northeast has one great advantage, and that is distance. You can drive from one end of New England to the other in almost the same time it takes to drive from Provo to Las Vegas. With 2 or 3 quality teams you will get home games. But first you have to build it, then they will come.

This is true but there seems to be only so much the PCLL teams can do to encourage this. 5 PCLL teams went out of conference this year and while they all didn't play top competition and they all didn't have winning trips they did make the effort. As far as quality competition in the Northeast: UNH had a poor OOC trip, but I still think they represent good competition for 15 to 25 type teams (they have traditionally been one of the top PCLL teams), BC and NU obviously make the list, and on the outside even Uconn and URI could be reasonable opponents. At the very least there are 3 good games to be had (not obviously on the same level as a trip to provo but nothing to sneeze at).

As you say build it and they will come... If a venue was chosen, in say Boston, I'm sure that every team in the PCLL would be willing to come there for the chance at OOC (semi-home) games, all the OOC team(s) would have to do is get to Beantown and they'd have 5 games come to them. I dont' know if any PCLL teams have actually looked into this or not...

I know your talking about teams in the 10-16 range, but look at BYU, CSU, and this year UMD. BYU and CSU have had to schedule like that (top 25 games at the start of the year) for a long time.

Absolutely, the fact they they do this every year and produce is what makes BYU and CSU what they are. Despite the talk of growing MCLA parity and the narrowing gap between those 4-6 top teams and the rest, it still does exist. Even taking into account all the "close" losses and upsets that some teams (UMD) have against these teams, over a season's length and especially at nationals, CSU and BYU (and several others) always prove they still sit above the bar. Every program aspires to that point but I don't think (at this time) it's very accurate to compare the majority of the MCLA teams and their scheduling practices to those of CSU and BYU. (hence my 10 to 16 reference)

[scooter]

If you are serious about people coming up to New England to play, coaches of BC, NU, UNH, etc should all try to get in contact with JP, Coach Lamb, Flip, Coach Graff, etc about trying to get them to Boston next year. Do your best now to prepare for the future. As previously stated, if you can get 1 or 2 of these teams to commit, the rest will follow. Couple that with a trip to Cali, and you should be set for at least a season.

[COlaxer]

When does the next poll come out??

[slider]

There have been some good points made on this forum about the pre-season poll. I think it is an important buzz builder, but it can have the unfortunate effect of restricting teams to certain areas of the poll (won't drop too low, can't climb too high). Perhaps the preseason poll should be a message board poll. This board is where the arguments will be made until the teams can make their cases on the field, so why not have a preseason "media" poll. After a few weeks of games, the official pollsters can base their votes on actual results. Just a thought.

[Ravaging Beast]

When does the next poll come out??

Next poll is Wednesday 4/25. Then there is one on 5/2 and one on 5/6. And do a little searching at the top of the poll section to see when the next poll is. http://www.collegelax.us/pollinfo.php

[COlaxer]

When does the next poll come out??

Next poll is Wednesday 4/25. Then there is one on 5/2 and one on 5/6. Are there any games being played after 5/2? And do a little searching at the top of the poll section to see when the next poll is. http://www.collegelax.us/pollinfo.php

Thanks Beast.