Florida Primary Update - Here We Go Again...

[peterwho]

From the Sun-Sentinel:

In northern Coral Springs, near the Sawgrass Expressway and Coral Ridge Drive, David Nirenberg arrived to vote as an independent. Nevertheless, he said poll workers insisted he choose a party ballot.

"He said to me, 'Are you Democrat or Republican?' I said, 'Neither, I am independent.' He said, 'Well, you have to pick one,''' Nirenberg said.

In Florida, only those who declare a party are allowed to cast a vote in that party's presidential primary.

Nirenberg said he tried to explain to the poll worker that he should not vote on a party ballot because of his "no party affiliation" status.

Nirenberg said a second poll worker was called over who agreed that independents should not use party ballots, but said they had received instructions to the contrary.

"He said, 'Ya know, that is kind of funny, but it was what we were told.' … I was shocked when they told me that." Nirenberg said he went ahead and voted for John McCain.

Just to level-set:

Democrats outnumber Republicans 2:1 in Broward County. So, this is not a right-wing, conspiracy.
The Supervisor of Elections inherited a disaster when the previous officeholder was removed for incompetence.
It is nearly impossible to be fired from a government job in Broward County.

So, based on the last two items, it is not surprising that there are issues with the procedures.

The touchscreen voting machines now have audit capability and a paper trail (I have my receipt!).

The question is: Will those independent votes automatically be thrown out?

[laxfan25]

In the recent Michigan primary you had to tell them if you wanted a Republican or Democratic ballot, and your choice was noted and that info will be sent to the parties. Since these are party primaries it makes sense that there may not be an independent option, although I would prefer a ballot that just lists both sets of candidates.
However, that doesn't mean that you have to follow your primary selection in the general election. Some people have been known to vote in one party's primary and then vote another way later on.

[peterwho]

That would be fine if that were the rules.

In Florida, you must declare your party affiliation ~ 30 days prior to the primary (it is a "closed" primary). Only those who declare, are permitted to vote in that party's primary.

The issue, here, is that the poll workers are not facilitating (enforcing) the rules. This will, again, taint the results.

[StrykerFSU]

Luckily in Leon County we still vote on paper ballots.

The story out of Broward is absolutely ridiculous. There were only two issues on the ballot today 1) Presidential candidate and 2) a property tax amendment. If you are a registered Republican you get the Republican ballot with Republican names and the tax amendment. If you are a registered Democrat you get the Democrat ballot with the property tax amendment. If you are an independent you just get the property tax amendment ballot...what's so freaking hard?!?!?!

I guess not being a moron is not a prerequisite for working the polls.

Never mind that the DNC isn't seating Florida delegates at the convention so Democrats voting in the primary today won't see their votes count...good times in the Sunshine State!

[peterwho]

Never mind that the DNC isn't seating Florida delegates at the convention so Democrats voting in the primary today won't see their votes count...good times in the Sunshine State!

I forgot to mention that the pollworker didn't see the humor when I asked him if he was only giving the "My Vote Counted" stickers to Republicans.

[StrykerFSU]

Obviously a big win for the Straight Talk Express. Some stats that maybe Wish can help break down for us:

The powerful Cuban immigrant community went for McCain over Romney by a 5 to 1 margin, according to the network exit poll. McCain beat Romney by 10 percentage points among voters older than 65.

McCain even won among voters who would seemingly be open to Romney's economic pitch. Of the 63 percent of GOP voters who said the economy is doing poorly or not well, 41 percent sided with McCain, compared with 27 percent who voted for Romney.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/29/AR2008012903897.html?hpid=topnews

Will McCain's stance on illegal immigration be more of an issue in true border states? You have to give him Az. so that leaves California, New Mexico, and Texas as possible hurdles. I don't think it will matter. McCain's philosophy on the situation is actually quite reasoned and should appeal to all but the most ardent supporters of universal deportation.

Don't turn the lights out on the GOP just yet kiddies. After a brief flirtation with the vocal minority Christian Right (Huckabee), it seems that the GOP may come together behind a true hero and uniter (you know, one that has been in Congress for longer than 15 minutes). It's nice to see that a moderate candidate and not someone beholden to the "base" can inspire the electorate and might secure the nomination.

Regardless, the national race just got a heck of a lot more interesting.

[Ben Clark]

Can someone explain why Florida was a "delegate-free" state for the Democrats? I don't understand. Didn't the same thing happen in Michigan?

[StrykerFSU]

The DNC got all peeved that the state moved the primary up in the calendar year so they will not be seating the Democrat delegates from Florida at the party's convention. The candidates boycotted the state in support of the DNC and many voters here are feeling a bit disenfranchised, though nothing will likely come of it. Hillary's "win" was about as valuable as a NFL preseason victory. It was as hotly contested and counts as much in the standings.

I don't know if it caused a lot of Dems to stay home yesterday but if they did, that would have certainly impacted the vote on the amendment to the state constitution regarding property taxes. For those curious, the measure passed meaning we homeowners will save ~$200 a year and only cost the state ~$16 billion over the next 5 years.

[laxfan25]

Yes, in all likelihood the delegates from MI and FL will get seated at the convention - they won't want to piss off the voters in those states totally. The bigger problem is that they've already given away the hotel rooms that were reserved for the MI delegation, so now they'll probably be staying at the Motel 6 in Durango.
What is surprising is that amost 1.7 million voted in that Dem primary, even knowing that it meant little right now. The GOP total, in a very important contest came in at a little over 1.9 million. People definitely seem to be paying attention.
Speaking about the $16B hit to Florida, I was listening to an interview yesterday afternoon on All Things Considered with Sen Max Baucus (sp?), talking about the $150B giveaway, and the interviewer asked him how this was going to be paid for - "It isn't" was the answer - and he was still fully behind the idea. I think it's just great the way we keep piling on burdens on our children and grandchildren. The "economic stimulus", the War in Iraq (which will eventually run over a TRILLION dollars), all being put on our national Visa card, and we're not even getting airline miles. The hypocrisy of doing this, and then campaigning to make tax cuts permanent, makes me just shake my head. What ever happened to fiscal discipline, at least to some reasonable degree? I know that the State of Michigan and our local municipalities that are forced by law to run a balanced budget have had to make deep and drastic cuts that have inflicted real pain, while the federal government blithely goes on it's merry way. Let's hope that the straight-talk express, no matter which party is in the driver's seat, delivers the message that this cannot continue.

[Sonny]

Don't worry now that Billary has won in the Sunshine State.... I'm sure the Clinton machine will make sure that the Florida DNC delegate votes are counted.... somehow, someway.

Only someone from the left would argue that letting tax payers keep more of the money they earn as a "giveaway."

Why can't folks from the left understand basic economics? Overall government tax revenues rise when taxes are cut. Individuals buy more goods when they get to keep more in their pocketbook versus sending it to Washington. Business owners (particularly small business owners) invest more money. It's been proven time and time again.

[Jolly Roger]

Well, let's take it a step further. Let's get out of Iraq, saving billiions. Let's not provide any economic aid outside the US until we get our deficit taken care of. Let's insist that those countries to whom we've made loans, repay them in a timely fashion.

I'll be honest, I'm a little tired of being the world's policeman. I'd be interested to see what some of our "allies" would do if we took a few years vacation from that role.

The downfall of the neo-cons will be greatly influenced by their inability to balance their desire to change the world with the need to keep our p00p in a group at home. You think W might have remembered what happened to his dad. I guess that's asking too much.

[Gvlax]

Well, let's take it a step further. Let's get out of Iraq, saving billiions. Let's not provide any economic aid outside the US until we get our deficit taken care of. Let's insist that those countries to whom we've made loans, repay them in a timely fashion.

I'll be honest, I'm a little tired of being the world's policeman. I'd be interested to see what some of our "allies" would do if we took a few years vacation from that role.

The downfall of the neo-cons will be greatly influenced by their inability to balance their desire to change the world with the need to keep our p00p in a group at home. You think W might have remembered what happened to his dad. I guess that's asking too much.

sounds like a ron paul supporter.

[Dan Wishengrad]

Why can't folks from the left understand basic economics? Overall government tax revenues rise when taxes are cut. Individuals buy more goods when they get to keep more in their pocketbook versus sending it to Washington. Business owners (particularly small business owners) invest more money. It's been proven time and time again.

Okay, I am not going to argue with you my friend. Let's make the economy THE issue in the general election, which it is becoming anyway. Let's have all those who agree with you that trickle-down economics is still a viable theory given the state of our GNP and our trade and budget deficits vote for a candidate who runs on a pledge of massive tax cuts. Let's have those who want to face fiscal reality vote for the other side. We shall see soon enough what side the majority of Americans agree with...

PS Now that Mitt has promised to bring all the lost auto-worker jobs back to Michigan, let's also have him promise Californians that he will end all earthquakes permanently before Super Tuesday.

[laxfan25]

Don't worry now that Billary has won in the Sunshine State.... I'm sure the Clinton machine will make sure that the Florida DNC delegate votes are counted.... somehow, someway.

Only someone from the left would argue that letting tax payers keep more of the money they earn as a "giveaway."

Why can't folks from the left understand basic economics? Overall government tax revenues rise when taxes are cut. Individuals buy more goods when they get to keep more in their pocketbook versus sending it to Washington. Business owners (particularly small business owners) invest more money. It's been proven time and time again.

It's been noted for several weeks that the DNC would not follow through on not seating the delegates from MI and FL- it's not just a Clinton thing.

Letting taxpayers keep their money is fine, as long as it hasn't been spent by the gov't already. In this case, the stimulus is a direct addition to the deficit since there is no corresponding offset.
I do believe I have a pretty good understanding of economics. It is not a fact that cutting tax rates automatically leads to an increase in tax revenues. In a growing economy it may occur, but it is not a given. Taking that theory to the extreme would mean that as the tax rate approaches zero, gov't revenues would approach infinity.
The real issue stems from the unrealizable wishes of the population. There is a demand (and need) for gov't services, whether they are your fatted calf or not - at the same time as there is a desire to not have to pay for any of it. The purpose of a tax system is to attempt to balance those two competing urges, and how that is formulated, and how those revenues are distributed, is really at the root of the liberal/conservative divide.

[Adam Gamradt]

Why can't folks from the left understand basic economics? Overall government tax revenues rise when taxes are cut. Individuals buy more goods when they get to keep more in their pocketbook versus sending it to Washington. Business owners (particularly small business owners) invest more money. It's been proven time and time again.

Sweeping generalizations aside, at what level of taxation does this cease to function?