Censoring math books?

by **BucLax13** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:11 am

calculators... what a terrible thing to teach children to use

what next... computers? you might as well let the kids think for themselves!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/011708dnmettextbooks.2a88fb6.html

**Sponsor**

by **StrykerFSU** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:57 am

3rd graders should not be allowed to use calculators. A monkey can punch numbers into a calculator and get an answer, shouldn't the goal of teaching young students mathematics be that they actually understand the concept? This "teaching" strategy is another example of coddling students to improve test scores while actually doing a disservice to the students' future education. God help us if we actually taught young kids how to think!

"Hmmm, 3 times 4 equals......I can't remember my tables. I'll just use a calculator."

And we wonder why the U.S. is falling so far behind in science and engineering.

But obviously that is not the real issue here. This is all about Dallas area school board politics.

by **Beta** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:16 am

StrykerFSU wrote:3rd graders should not be allowed to use calculators. A monkey can punch numbers into a calculator and get an answer, shouldn't the goal of teaching young students mathematics be that they actually understand the concept? This "teaching" strategy is another example of coddling students to improve test scores while actually doing a disservice to the students' future education. God help us if we actually taught young kids how to think!

100% correct.

A calculator doesn't need to be touched until college. And at that point it should be only sparingly.

If you can't do simple math...then you don't need to be in that class...and you need to go back to the basics.

by **Sonny** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:46 am

And we wonder why the counter help can't make simple change at the gas station or fast food joint without the cash register's help. :roll:

by **laxfan25** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:02 pm

Beta wrote: A calculator doesn't need to be touched until college. And at that point it should be only sparingly.

I agree with the spirit, but my son, a jr. in HS, is taking math classes right now that I took my soph year in college! I'll let him get away with the HP calculator that they use. I look at his homework and am very grateful that he doesn't ask me for help!

He just took the A/P practice exam for Calc A-B and got a 5. Smart kid - maternal genetics.

by **Beta** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:06 pm

...I'll let him get away with the HP calculator that they use...

A calculator for calculus? Weeeeeeeeak

Besides, once you get past the basics/building-blocks and are doing more complex math...a calculator to make test-taking faster is ok.

Sonny wrote:And we wonder why the counter help can't make simple change at the gas station or fast food joint without the cash register's help.

Sonny, you're being oppressive.

What I find hilarious is that if you are mathematically slow or illiterate you can be fired, or not even hired in the first place. You can get turned down from colleges, as well. But if you can't speak/understand the English language and you aren't from America you have support groups, the ALCU and a lawsuit if you wish.

But no philly cheese steaks

by **Ben Clark** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:09 pm

Well, you can have it both ways. I always knew all my multiplication tables when I was little, and I also used a calculator extensively in high school and college.

by **Ryan Hanavan** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:10 pm

Sonny wrote:And we wonder why the counter help can't make simple change at the gas station or fast food joint without the cash register's help.

I love it when you pull the two cents out after they already determined you will get 98 cents back and they look at you like "dude, why would you give me those 2 cents when I'm about to give you 98 new ones, can't you read?"

I'm all for teaching the fundamentals. I'm even seeing more and more short cuts in graduate level classes. You will understand things so much more if you are tasked with actually solving the problems with your internal computer.

by **Zeuslax** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:14 pm

The added issue that schools are trying to tackle as well is that they are constantly challenged to match the evolving work place. Things that were done by hand 5, 10, 15 years ago are handled by computer programs now. Employers want to know what skills you have and math is NEVER listed as one - unfortunately they expect too much. You should know that garbage in equal’s garbage out and without the background you can struggle. However, rarely in the workplace do people use math in an obvious manner.....at least 99% don't. I wish I was in that 99% bracket sometimes, but even in my work setting we often discuss our lack of basic math skills.

Let's not even talk about writing skills and public speaking aptitude.

by **Ryan Hanavan** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:14 pm

Zeuslax wrote:You should know that garbage in equal’s garbage out

Are you a GIS person? Geographic Information Systems (GIS) to be more clear.

by **Zeuslax** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:26 pm

Geographic Information Systems (GIS) to be more clear.

I'm in research with an engineering background and a focus on high performance and advanced HVAC. Each of our team has expertise in different areas, IE, envelope, process, modeling, domestic hot water, misc electric loads, etc.....but with a fundamental knowledge of Best Practices® for high performance residential construction – process, safety, healthy and durability. On the advanced research side of things we do a lot of physics, calculus, algebra and basic math. I use a lot of geometry and algebra mostly. My title is Building Scientist (It’s building science not rocket science) depending on the setting.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/about/index.html

Many of my conference presentations are slowed due to people struggling with problems such as this. Btuh = 1.08 x delta T x cfm………you provide them with 3 of the variables to solve the problem, but one of them isn’t delta T or cfm and smoke starts shooting out of their ears. Then you dazzle them with the black magic of specific gravity and density and you sound like Oppenheimer.

by **laxfan25** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:01 pm

And Zeus, do you have a graduate-level plumber's crack?? :lol:

by **Zeuslax** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:05 pm

And Zeus, do you have a graduate-level plumber's crack??

Actually I just recieved my masters level certificate of completion. It was a very rigorous seminar.....you had to wear painters jeans and squat down in front of a water heater for 2 hours. I'm working on my doctoral thesis currently as well, but not getting much traction. Maybe it's the title? "How to Make Plumbers Crack Look Sexy in Board Shorts" :lol:

by **BucLax13** on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:21 pm

I am glad use of calculators by third graders was the only issue being posed in the article.

What next... are they going to subvert funds for textbooks by breaking the law and replace proven learning systems with personal opinions while expanding their own committee power.

hey it's just about calculators

by **UofMLaxGoalie11** on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:02 am

I have always been at the top of my classes for math, but depend heavily on a calculator for simple stuff. When I bartend, I can't think of what people owe me half the time (partly cause my prices for everything are near random, but thats a different gripe of mine). Mental math has never been my strength, but i got 100% on a multivariable calculus test a couple semesters ago. Granted that I can still do simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in my head, but it certainly isnt instant and gets worse if somebody is waiting to hear the answer. Granted that the kids need to learn their basics like I did, but calculators are there for a reason, especially at higher levels. Like much of my math knowledge, I learned and was able to do it at one point, but have since learned new, more advanced and more important things and would have to revisit it to refresh my skill.