LaxTV Forums | A Forum About The MCLA

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:44 pm**

Great job Dearborn & the ACLU.... Why pay your own way when someone else can do it for you? I'm sure the Jews and Christians will get to share use of these footbaths, right?

Muslims won't fund footbaths

Leaders cite ACLU's decision not to oppose use of public money for UM-Dearborn project.

Karen Bouffard / The Detroit News

DEARBORN -- Muslim leaders in Metro Detroit have decided not to raise private money to pay for two footbaths at a local college campus now that the American Civil Liberties Union has said the plan doesn't pose constitutional problems.

The University of Michigan-Dearborn's plan to spend $25,000 on the footbaths was criticized on conservative blogs and radio shows this month. Critics said using public money for the project would violate the First Amendment, which says governments can't favor or subsidize religions.

Muslims are required to wash body parts, including feet, up to five times daily before prayers.

University officials say the floor-level wash basins are needed because some students at the 8,600-student campus wash their feet in the sinks.

LINK:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... 0361&imw=Y

"There's no intent to promote religion."

Right..... And I have some oceanfront property for sale in Iowa for sale.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:05 pm**

Instead of spending $25k on clean feets....how bout some Muslim women's rights in Islamic society? No? Not yet? My bad.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:34 pm**

Beta wrote:...Muslim women's rights in Islamic society...

In their faith, isn't that an oxymoron?

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:34 pm**

The University of Michigan-Dearborn's plan to spend $25,000 on the footbaths was criticized on conservative blogs and radio shows this month. Critics said using public money for the project would violate the First Amendment, which says governments can't favor or subsidize religions.

I'm sure many of the people criticizing here are the same ones that want public money to be spent on things like posting the ten commandments in government buildings. I'd rather see them not spend a dime of government money promoting, favoring, or subsidizing any religion.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:52 pm**

LaxRef wrote:I'm sure many of the people criticizing here are the same ones that want public money to be spent on things like posting the ten commandments in government buildings.

Aaaaaand no, not at all. 0 for 1.

I'd rather see them not spend a dime of government money promoting, favoring, or subsidizing any religion.

Yay! 1 for 2 isn't bad!

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:13 pm**

Beta wrote:
LaxRef wrote:I'm sure many of the people criticizing here are the same ones that want public money to be spent on things like posting the ten commandments in government buildings.

Aaaaaand no, not at all. 0 for 1.

I'd rather see them not spend a dime of government money promoting, favoring, or subsidizing any religion.

Yay! 1 for 2 isn't bad!

I meant the people referred to in the article (conservative blogs and radio shows), not on the forum. I stand by my belief that many of those conservatives are in favor of government money spent on religion, but certainly not all of them.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:00 pm**

LaxRef wrote:I meant the people referred to in the article (conservative blogs and radio shows), not on the forum. I stand by my belief that many of those conservatives are in favor of government money spent on religion, but certainly not all of them.

Ah oops, apologies.

How does $25k get allocated for something like that? That's what cramps my mind. That's a lotta cheese to drop on a small percentage of the students.

Posted: **Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:26 pm**

Why is there outrage over this and not over the federal monies given to faith-based initiatives?

I'll hang up and listen to your response.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:50 am**

They're actually using student money to fund the construction of the footbaths, not the money allocated to them by the state, which is why it's not unconstitutional.
The only people who should be outraged are students at UM-Dearborn who presumably would want their money to go towards their education.
And it's also important to remember that Dearborn has one of the biggest (if not the biggest) Muslim communities in the world outside of the Middle East. Community relations are important at any university.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:00 am**

jayjaciv wrote:They're actually using student money to fund the construction of the footbaths, not the money allocated to them by the state, which is why it's not unconstitutional.

Where are you getting that information from? The article says that it's UM-Dearborn paying the bills, not the students.

KnoxVegas wrote:Why is there outrage over this and not over the federal monies given to faith-based initiatives?

A. As far as I understand it, the faith-based initiatives are not tied to, nor discriminatory toward any one religion. This issue most certainly is.

B. The hypocrisy of the ACLU that has fought every single religious accommodation in public American life over the last 50 years is delicious.

P.S. Can't wait till some frat boy decides to wash his dog in one of those footbaths. Because this isn't about Islam right and the non-Muslims get to use those public facilities too, right?

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:41 am**

Where are you getting that information from?

Local news radio here in metro Detroit.

UM-Dearborn is paying, but out of the money they get from students, not from money they get from the state. Apparently public institutions like U of M keep those pools of money separate.

I'm not saying it's right, or the ACLU isn't being somewhat hypocritical, I'm just saying it appears that it's technically legal and they would be blowing a lot of money fighting a losing legal battle.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:37 am**

If they made something, I dunno "bible-reading tables" or something...I bet ole JC wouldn't get mad if someone's there reading something else. I'd bet that one (if not all) of the fraternities would wash their dogs in it.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:10 am**

Beta wrote:If they made something, I dunno "bible-reading tables" or something...I bet ole JC wouldn't get mad if someone's there reading something else. I'd bet that one (if not all) of the fraternities would wash their dogs in it.

I think Sonny was referencing the fact that muslims think dogs are unclean animals and don't mix well with the whole prayer thing. Kind of like cooking pork in a pan you use for kosher meals. I don't know the specifics of it, but I remember at my last company I had our dog up in the parking lot and he is very friendly. One of my muslim co workers had come outside and our dog immediately ran to him and the guy freaked. We just thought he was afraid of dogs, but then he explained the whole thing to us. So yeah, depending on where these footbaths would be, good luck keeping someone from watering their dog there.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:10 am**

If they are going to use funds from student fees, the student government should have the opportunity to weigh in on the issue.

The article refers to public money but doesn't state where the money is coming from or offer any discussion from individuals who oppose the project, except of course to say that "conservative" bloggers are against it. Obviously the author is implying that those in opposition are somehow unenlightened but as they don't get the opportunity to present their argument, we will never know.

Outstanding reporting from the Motor City. Maybe the money would be better served by being spent in the journalism department.

Posted: **Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:03 pm**

jayjaciv wrote:UM-Dearborn is paying, but out of the money they get from students, not from money they get from the state. Apparently public institutions like U of M keep those pools of money separate.

Isn't this just an accounting trick, though? I mean, if they didn't spend that money from the student fees on footbaths, they could use it to fund $25 grand worth of club sports or something that might be coming from state funding.

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