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Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:14 pm**

The First Amendment of our Constitution declares that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." But the devil's in the details, if you will, and the often demonized Internal Revenue Service has taken up the issue where other federal agencies and branches of government have feared to tread: This summer the IRS sent out a letter warning letter to more than 15,000 churches and tax-exempt nonprofit organizations throughout the nation. The warning letter is meant to serve notice that any sort of politicking could endanger their tax-exempt status.

The IRS discovered a disturbing amount of intervention by religious groups in national politics in 2004. It determined nearly five dozen churches and charities violated laws against political activities, and there are now 40 active investigations into the politicking of various churches.

Taken from

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/26/Dobbs.Sept27/index.html

Thoughts? Comments?

Another quote:

Some churches and nonprofits have become extensions of both Democratic and Republican political message machines at the local and national level. The intrusion of religion into our political lives, in my opinion, should be rejected in the same fashion that we constitutionally guarantee government will not interfere with religion.

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:21 pm**

God Hater

Just kidding. :wink:

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:12 am**

Rob Graff wrote:
The intrusion of religion into our political lives, in my opinion, should be rejected in the same fashion that we constitutionally guarantee government will not interfere with religion.

Good luck with that. This is a religious country and religion will always play a part in politics. I would agree that we should try and limit religious influences in politics, but it will always play a part.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:16 am**

Religion in bed with politics is all the more reason why we should seriously dump our tax code & the IRS - get rid of all the tax breaks/incentives - treat EVERY single American exactly the same. Take the power of the checkbook back out of Washington:
http://www.fairtax.org/

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:55 am**

Sonny wrote:Religion in bed with politics is all the more reason why we should seriously dump our tax code & the IRS - get rid of all the tax breaks/incentives - treat EVERY single American exactly the same. Take the power of the checkbook back out of Washington:
http://www.fairtax.org/

But how would we prosecute our gangsters?
In all seriousness, that seems like a good system. I cant tell you how much Im looking forward to taxes just cause Im gonna get a monsterous return cause I have to report almost every single tip I make. Im sure there will be several people after me saying "that system wouldnt ever work" so Ill stop fueling their fire.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:04 am**

Taxes (either called taxes or "fees" or "adjustments") are used to regulate many areas of commerce, without which there would be little accountability in the economic sector of our country. While many (myself included) see taxes as something that hurts and slows the economy, there still can be no denying that sometimes taxes are used to keep businesses and organizations in check (or in this case, away from government where their religious affiliation is unconstitutional).

However, Americans are so madly in love with private business, that it's no surprise to me that there is a strong push to continue to allow private businesses to have zero accountability to anyone... ever...

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 am**

I don't think there is any place for politics in tax-exempt churches, be it Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton preaching against Republicans or Pat Robertson doing whatever it is that he does when not sounding like an idiot. But I agree with Campbell, there will never be a complete removal of religion from government. Though the secular progressives may not like it, the vast majority of people in this country have faith in one religion or another and use the principles of their respective faiths as guidance in their daily lives.

You show me an atheist politician and I'll show you an election loser.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:25 am**

You show me an atheist politician and I'll show you an election loser.

All Democrats? They don't believe in God and hate America.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm**

sohotrightnow wrote:
You show me an atheist politician and I'll show you an election loser.

All Democrats? They don't believe in God and hate America.

That was actually a big discussion after Kerry lost the election to Bush. Basically that Democrats don't show their religious side enough. I find a lot of Democrats to be fairly conservative religious people (albeit politically more liberal), but since we have polarized politics to the point of absurdity they would never call themselves that. So much is made of Bush and his christian background and I think that has had a lot to do with his popularity. Is he really any more christian than Kerry or Gore? Many probably think so.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:53 pm**

"I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for President who also happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my Church on public matters—and the Church does not speak for me."

I believe this is where separation of chuch and state began.

P.S. This is from a speech delivered by JFK in Houston, TX on September 12, 1960.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:58 pm**

peterwho wrote:
"I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for President who also happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my Church on public matters—and the Church does not speak for me."

I believe this is where separation of chuch and state began.

P.S. This is from a speech delivered by JFK in Houston, TX on September 12, 1960.

No, I think it was a little earlier than that, as Coach Graff pointed out, with the framers of our Constitution. Now it's those damn "activist judges" who keep reminding us of that little principle, outlawing Christmas displays, the 10 commandments rock in the Alabama courthouse, etc.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:03 pm**

...removing "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:41 pm**

But 'under God' was not originally in the Pledge of Allegiance. They added it in during the Cold War.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:15 pm**

StrykerFSU wrote:...removing "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Which God?

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 pm**

I didn't know that Oaks. According to that great fountain of knowledge, Wikipedia, it was added following a sermon by one of those "wacky far-Right" Presbyterians. :roll:

Since it doesn't refer to a specific God, I'm going to lean to an all inclusive interpretation but I went to private school so I didn't have to do the whole recitation thing and start my day under the yoke of such religious oppresion.

I find it rather ridiculous that some have taken to viewing the First Amendment as a ban against all religion in any government matters. I think the intent was to prevent the government from mandating one religion over all others or outlawing any others but hey, my idea of what a bunch of dudes were thinking 200 years ago is just as nutty as anyone else's.

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