Yet More Republican `I'm not gay` Hijinks

[Adam Gamradt]

As pointed out by Dennis Miller, when the Democrats start using the national tragedy of 9/11 as a punchline you know they have lost touch. Was he all out of Holocaust jokes?

Kind of like Bush joking about not being able to find the WMD's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ

Anyone else remember when Dennis Miller was funny?

Guliani is obsessed with using 9/11 to further his political career. Biden's joke was pretty funny. Not only was it funny, the fact that we're discussing it means his criticism was effective.

[Zeuslax]

Pretty depressing video!!

[Adam Gamradt]

Pretty depressing time to be politically coherent.

Keep in mind President Bush made that "joke" in March of 2004, coming up on four years ago.

[StrykerFSU]

So, if we're keeping score that's one mention in a Democratic debate about one of the Republican candidates and 5,983,004 mentions of a Democratic candidate during the Republican debates.

Come on Dan, we were discussing Biden and Giuliani...of course it happens both ways and it's wrong in both accounts. I didn't think I needed to point that out.

Biden's joke was pretty funny.

I can think of at least 3,000 families that didn't think it was funny...and I didn't think it was funny. When is the last time you heard a good Pearl Harbor joke? Maybe Biden's got one about Flight 103 that I haven't heard yet. If Joe Biden thinks that Rudy is unqualified and is using the tragedy of 9/11 for political gain there are far more intelligent and productive ways to make his point than a tasteless crack. Maybe poor decisions like this are why Biden is an irrelevant candidate.

[jayjaciv]

Seems to me the joke was more about Giuliani than 9/11.
And if we can't talk about something tangentially related to 9/11 with a bit of levity six years later, we are never going to get out of it's shadow, IMO.

[Adam Gamradt]

I would argue that it's more distasteful for Mr. Guliani to personally profit from the attacks, to the tune of 11 million dollars last year from speakers fees. He's opened himself up for criticism such as Biden's joke, by perpetuating the myth that he's somehow a hero. Biden wouldn't even be able to make an inapropriate joke if Guliani didn't carry himself like New York's personal savior, constantly repeating the 911 mantra, and insisting that we need to live in fear.

I would argue that it's more distasteful for Mr. Guliani to make false statements like "I was at Ground Zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. I was there working with them. I was exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I'm one of them."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/08 ... claim.html

Here's a little story that's worth the read as well.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0635%2 ... 2%2C6.html

The first of his 12 committments to the American People is:

I will keep America on offense in the Terrorists’ War on Us.

"We’re at war not because we want to be, but because the terrorists declared war on us—well before the attacks of September 11th."

Yet simultaniously he justifies his decision to put the command center in THE primary terrorist target by claiming no one could have guessed someone would fly an airplane in to the WTC. What foresight!

Rudy claims "Our government and international institutions must transform themselves to fight the terrorists."

This from the guy who didn't even solve the known problem that the NYFD didn't have radio's that would work properly.

Oddly enough, it seems his connection to 911 is de-emphasized on his website. It's almost like his PR people are aware of his public perception problem that's he's a one trick pony.

So here's a question for you, if 911 can not be used as the premise for a joke. Not sure if you're a Family Guy fan, but Lois had a pretty funny bit here:

http://www.idkwtf.com/videos/latest-vid ... ch-on-9-11

So by your standards, this is out of line?

[Adam Gamradt]

When was the last time I heard a good Pearl Harbor joke?

How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2YWHBFx3Zg

I still argue that Biden's joke, which was really more satire than a joke, was poignant.

[Dan Wishengrad]

So, if we're keeping score that's one mention in a Democratic debate about one of the Republican candidates and 5,983,004 mentions of a Democratic candidate during the Republican debates.

Come on Dan, we were discussing Biden and Giuliani...of course it happens both ways and it's wrong in both accounts. I didn't think I needed to point that out.

Biden's joke was pretty funny.

I can think of at least 3,000 families that didn't think it was funny...and I didn't think it was funny. When is the last time you heard a good Pearl Harbor joke? Maybe Biden's got one about Flight 103 that I haven't heard yet. If Joe Biden thinks that Rudy is unqualified and is using the tragedy of 9/11 for political gain there are far more intelligent and productive ways to make his point than a tasteless crack. Maybe poor decisions like this are why Biden is an irrelevant candidate.

Come on, my friend. Biden (who I agree is irrelevant, by the way!) was NOT making light of the 9/11 tragedy. He was making fun of Rudy who keeps exploiting this tragedy by working it into every single thing that pops out of his mouth. Ask Rudy about Social Security, he'll cite 9/11 as a reason why we need to be tough on national security. Ask Rudy about abortion, he'll respond with 9/11. Ask him about anything not germane to our war on the terrorists and it's "9/11... 9/11.... 9/11". If you are so offended by a joke meant to poke fun at a guy that is practically crying out to be made fun of... well, then I'm not sure what to say.

I have made the mistake of watching the GOP debates or watching the post-debate highlights afterwards. These guys are not debating anything of substance, but rather only taking pot-shots at Hillary and arguing amongst themselves which one of them is the most conservative of all. There have been a few good laughs, true, like McCain's crack about being "tied up" during Woodstock and the crack earlier about the GOP campaign being like an episode of "Law & Order" when "Fred Thompson shows up at the end". Only Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee have really talked about the issues of this campaign, while the front-runners have spent most of their time debating Hillary in absentia and trying to convince the GOP audience that Ronald Reagan would have endorsed them, and not their rivals.

The Dems aren't much better, I will concede, and this last debate was pathetic given how Bill Richardson and Chris Dodd were simply ignored by the Moderator and never given a chance to even speak.

PS Thanks Rudy, for stating that you were rooting for the Red Sox in the WS. I was worried you might actually beat Hillary in NY as the one state you would carry in the general election, but now you have likely lost your home state too.

[sohotrightnow]

Kind of like Bush joking about not being able to find the WMD's?

I don't think he was joking in that video. GW was and is trying really hard to find WMD. I watched with my own two eyes the exhibit that Colin Powell displayed and it was quite clear that there are WMD. If the Iraqi people would be more cooperative we would have found them by now.

The last thing we need is a Democrat in the White House. You just know that those terrorists are watching CNN 24/7 (The caves they live in actually get pretty good reception from what I have been been told) hoping and praying that a Democrat is elected in 2008.

I would not be surprised if we saw an influx of illegal immigrants from the Middle East in the next few months, just so they can vote for a Democrat in 2008. Expect to see more wildfires, earthquakes, hurricanes and bridge collapses during this same period as well. Coincidence?

[laxfan25]

I agree that Sen Biden was not joking when he made his reference to Giuliani and 9/11. He said - "I'm serious!" and he was. I don't think it's fair for Rudy to wrap himself in the flag of 9/11 and then cry foul when others call him on it.
What specifically did he do as Mayor after 9/11 that have elevated him to mythical status?
On another note, where are the calls, from either side, to bring the perpetrators of this tragedy to justice? Six years later and bin Laden is still dying his beard and bikini waxing his legs, and you never hear him mentioned.
Rob Graff, excellent post on what it means, and what the costs and inconveniences are, of living in a free society. Well put!

[KnoxVegas]

Sen. Biden was joking as much as Lloyd Bentson was with Quayle in '88.

[Zeuslax]

I know that speculation and "what ifs" are mostly BS, and in many cases can distract from the real conversation. However, I constantly wonder how different our world and country would be if two things happened.

1) We pumped all of our efforts, time, energy and resources into Afghanistan only. (P.S. I've read and heard many prominent politicians and power players say that no matter who was in the white house that we were going to Iraq no matter what. Our machine would not allow other wise.) After 911 if we hunted down those responsible and worked to rebuild and support the Afghani gov’t and their country. During the entire process we continually held the country up to the world as an example of America's fairness, power, doctrine and beliefs.


2) GW was not elected POTUS in 2000 and possibly not in 04

[Adam Gamradt]

This thread is getting off topic.

Anthony can you quantify this statement?

"P.S. I've read and heard many prominent politicians and power players say that no matter who was in the white house that we were going to Iraq no matter what. Our machine would not allow other wise."

A gentlemen on the Daily Show, who worked under Colin Powell, I forget his name, claimed that our nations foreign policy had essentially been hijacked by Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush.

Certainly Al Gore had profoundly more astute political and moral sense than to invade Iraq unnecessarily, given its non-involvement in the terrorist attacks on our country.

If there is a machine behind it, it was developed, engineered, and programmed by the current occupant.

The War in Iraq is a misnomer, and should be known quite simply as Mr. Bush's War.

[Rob Graff]

Of course let's be honest, how many people vote across party lines these days? No matter what he says, are you going to be punching his chad? (rhetorically)

No, but that is because I've never liked him or his views that the ends justify the means. But I have voted for Jim Ramstad, a local Republican representative.

I do think your point about voters not crossing party lines is a major concern. The hardening of the electorate and the refusal to listen, critically think and resolve issues they way you feel (rather than the way you are told) is missing.

I believe that Rudy brings up that day because 9/11 was the defining moment for a generation and his most shining moment as a leader, not as a tool to instill fear in the electorate. Further, I don't necessarily agree with the manner with which the President has prosecuted the fight against terrorism but that does not mean that a threat does not exist.

I agree that Rudy - from a tactical perspective - must highlight his identity as mayor on 9'/11. But I don't think that such is the sole motivation. Note his 10 points that is quoted above.

We all had a choice on how to react to 9/11. ON that day, Rudy reacted immediately, and to his credit was visable and led. Others were not visable.

And in the aftermath, some reacted by being afraid. Others reacted by agreeing to sacrifice personal liberty to the state. Others reacted by leading a movement toward unilateral action. The problem is no one of national import either saw a vision different than what was presented by the administration (perhaps one like Zeuslax's #1 above) or if they did, did not articulate it.

We all have the issues that are important to us and only the truly lucky can find a candidate with whom they agree on everything. The rest of us have to find the best of whomever is out there.

I completely agree. But I might change "lucky" to 'Blind".....

Enjoyed the chat. Must go to celebrate #4 child's First B-day.

[BB]

Line item veto and we could get some things done around here.

Bills should be about 1 thing and not a million, pass a bill and then move on to the next. Stop rolling issues in on top of each other.

The main issue I have with political thought in general these days is that it is no longer ok to compromise. Thus we end up in a stalemate as everyone worries about the next election more so than the state of our state. Only worrying about the sound bite and how the one piece of "pork" in a bill will affect them as they try and run the next time around. Even if the heart of a bill is agreed upon.

"Fear Mongering" and "Opposing" that fear mongering are great and dandy but what does it really matter as nothing actually happens.

I don't truly believe anyone actually knows what they are debating any more. They just get mad and stop listening. True educated calm debates seem to have dissappeared from our leaders, and have become name calling, finger pointing and grandstanding. All of which I view as childish 3rd grade antics and why myself and so many others I know are disenfranchised with every party.

Hopefully with the constant outing of conservative politicians... The whole anti-gay thing will stop being a rallying point for conservatives. I sure wish it would it doesn't make much sense when there are far more pressing issues, if a man and a man can be married, or if they just act married. Why have that be the focal point of your elected life when we are at war, social security may be tough for me to get when I retire, we have no border security, consistent poverty, trillions in debt, China, Russia, Sudan, a worthless UN that allows genocide while they "debate", these are all issues that need to be addressed and quickly, as we sit the situations get worse. Yet I have no confidence in either party that anything will be done on any of those issues once in power.

Rob, I agree with you but a free society and anarchy are only steps away from each other just as a free society and totalitarianism are steps away from each other and the laws that we set forth in that free society are there to protect us from anarchy. The line is ever changing, often based on threats to protect the citizens of the free society from anarchy. The major disagreement we all face is where that line is and when it reaches beyond it's true nature.

Hope you had a great Halloween
BB