PBS' Frontline: "Bush's War"

[Dan Wishengrad]

It's always interesting how the more conservative folks on the boards never join discussions like these.

Because PBS has it in for conservatives and spreads lies. This "documentary" is as credible as Fahrenheit 9/11.

Knew this was coming, and that SohorightNow... er UkraineNotWeak... would have to chime in with some kind of an ignorant taunt despite clearly not having even watched the program.

But let's assume for a second he knows what he is talking about, for once, rather than just knee-jerking as usual. Please tell us, what were the factual errors in the program, for instance? Which interviews with the prinicples from the military, the CIA, the Bush White House and its Cabinet members and staff were fabricated by PBS in its zeal to spread lies? Please name even ONE instance to back up your claims of non-credibility.

[AuggieLaxCoach]

I would not say that Frontline is on the same bias level as Mikey Moore. The fact that Generals and fellows like Bremer and the CIA folks took part in the interviews, in my opinion, boast a certain level of legitimacy.

-- "Bremer's claim of "not remembering" such a crucial early meeting in Baghdad with the NSC's Blackwill is simply not believable. Dr. Rice sends her top strategist from Washington to Baghdad specificially for this meeting, yet Bremer can't even remember meeting with "his good friend"? Anybody believe him? " --

Is it so hard to believe that he simply mis-remembered? If its good enough The Rocket... its good enough for Bremer

[Dan Wishengrad]

The saddest thing about the whole debacle was the monumentally stupid insistence, shared by Cheney and Rumsfield, that we could topple Saddam and then somehow get out quickly, with the Iraqis themselves with the rest of the world rushing in to rebuild the nation once we had acheived our initial military success. Rummy and Dick really did believe it would all be over in four or five months. The President was clearly warned by his own Sec. of State about the "Pottery Barn rule" and was equally warned by his Director of National Security (and his closest advisor) of the folly of such an improbable and unlikely outcome. Yet W. chose to side with the neo-cons against Powell and Rice, anyway. What exactly is the purpose of even having a State Department or a National Security Agency at all if they are to be so summarily ignored and/or overruled? Weren't General Powell and Dr. Rice appointed to their positions by President Bush, himself?

The juxtaposition of video footage of violence exploding between Sunnis and Shias throughout Iraq while Cheney was stating publicly at the same time that the insurgency was "in its last throes" is a lasting image nobody should ever forget.

[UkraineNotWeak]

You're right. I haven't seen it. There's not a whole lot we can do right now, lies or not. We need to fight this war or else we will be attacked by Turkmenistan next. It is becoming a breeding ground for extremists.

[Jana]

IMHO it's good to watch and read news from all political bents: Fox, PBS, NPR, NBC - listen to all of them and then make up your own mind. If Iraq is such a success, why are all these former loyalists to the Bush administration giving interviews to PBS?

[OAKS]

It's always interesting how the more conservative folks on the boards never join discussions like these.

In all fairness, the remaining power of the Bush administration is not conservative at all.

Record debts? More spending & less saving? Spreading out our army & waging war on two fronts? The largest increase in goverment & bureaucracy in history with the dept. of Homeland Security? Increasing government power & spying on citizens? A million-plus people on a terrorist watch list? Kickbacks and tons of no-bid contracts to pad the pockets of themselves & their cronies? Corporate welfare? Using taxpayer money to bill out companies too big to fail instead?

Do any of these things seem remotely conservative in nature?

[ineedmorecowbell]

You're right. I haven't seen it. There's not a whole lot we can do right now, lies or not. We need to fight this war or else we will be attacked by Turkmenistan next. It is becoming a breeding ground for extremists.

aw man. you dropped the ball with that post. all your other work was top notch.

[Steno]

It's always interesting how the more conservative folks on the boards never join discussions like these.

In all fairness, the remaining power of the Bush administration is not conservative at all.

Record debts? More spending & less saving? Spreading out our army & waging war on two fronts? The largest increase in goverment & bureaucracy in history with the dept. of Homeland Security? Increasing government power & spying on citizens? A million-plus people on a terrorist watch list? Kickbacks and tons of no-bid contracts to pad the pockets of themselves & their cronies? Corporate welfare? Using taxpayer money to bill out companies too big to fail instead?

Do any of these things seem remotely conservative in nature?

OAKS - totally agree with you. Bush supporters have no reason to call themselves conservatives. I myself am very traditionally conservative in all respects. I believe in small government, which must entail a woman's right to choose and the freedom of homosexuals to make whatever marital choices they desire. One who wishes to control personal and societal freedoms cannot be a conservative. Let the people decide for themselves.

However, it must be noted that today, the neo-cons who control the government are all for kickbacks and welfare ranching and all those things I despise. Forgive me for misspeaking - please substitute "conservative" for "the neo-cons and Bush apologists."

[Dan Warren]

Here are a couple questions I have:

1. How does WTC 1 and 2 collapse at free fall speed without explosives to sever the core columns on all floors?

2. How does WTC 7 collapse when it was the furthest building from 1 and 2, and only had fires burning on a few floors?

3. Who placed all the put-options on American Airlines and United Airlines stock that week?

[KnoxVegas]

You can add to the above:

4. Where are the tail section and engines of the 757 that hit the Pentagon?

[Dan Warren]

and

5. How were cell phone calls and "airfone" calls made from flight 93 when that was impossible? They also didn't have "airfones" on that model plane.

[laxfan25]

I'm really sorry I missed this show - I hope they replay it so I can DVR it. I know I can watch it on the computer but it's not the same as the plasma TV.
The interesting thing about this war is that there is such a detailed record of it. As President Bush often states, history will write the final verdict on this activity, and my gut reaction says that the verdict will not be in his favor.
I have always felt that Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rumsfeld took advantage of their senior positions vis-a-vis Bush Jr. to steer his actions, and I've always found it interesting that when GWB put Mr. Cheney at the head of his VP search committee the only person that really met all the necessary criteria was....Mr. Cheney! As Church Lady would say - "how conveeeenient!"
One of the better clips from the early days of the invasion - Mr. Rumsfeld saying "How long will this war last? Who knows? Six days, six weeks - certainly not six months.." (or six or sixty years).

Also of interest is the improving intelligence capababilities of the Bush Administration as the new head of the CIA announced last weekend that they believe that Osama Bin Laden has established a hideout in Pakistan - not Iraq. News flash!

[Jana]

1. How does WTC 1 and 2 collapse at free fall speed without explosives to sever the core columns on all floors?

2. How does WTC 7 collapse when it was the furthest building from 1 and 2, and only had fires burning on a few floors?

3. Who placed all the put-options on American Airlines and United Airlines stock that week?

Read the Popular Mechanics article.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... tml?page=4

Footnotes are required before we take the facts listed in your questions at face value. Also, considering how terribly our country tests in science and mathematics, can 98% of americans even comprehend the physics that were involved in the WTC collapse?

Define free fall speed? cite credible sources stating which floors had fires in WTC 7? Define the history of hte put-options on AA and UA stock that week and what the major changes were? Were there other factors (such as the weakening economy or increases in fuel costs, impending strikes, etc)?

As for the Pentagon crash, I guess you could say build a conspiracy about any airplane crash because the layman doesn't know where all the pieces are stored afterwards. Seriously, where are the pieces of Flight 700 stored? I have no idea. CONSPIRACY AFOOT!

[UkraineNotWeak]

5. How were cell phone calls and "airfone" calls made from flight 93 when that was impossible? They also didn't have "airfones" on that model plane.

Are you saying that the movie United 93 was false? I thought it was a documentary.

[Jana]

You can add to the above:

4. Where are the tail section and engines of the 757 that hit the Pentagon?

From the FAQ section of the link I posted above:

FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"