Cat Stevens

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Cat Stevens

Postby laxfan25 on Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:41 pm

In another thread talking about a Muslim juror listening to an MP3 player under her veil during court duty, the following comment was expressed -

Wonder if she was listening to Mr. Peace Train Cat Stevens on her new IPhone?


Is there a problem with Cat, since he changed his name to Yusuf Islam? Is he not sincere when he asks you to get on board the Peace Train? Is that an unacceptable alternative to the War Train we've been riding for the past 4+ years?

A little history on Cat Stevens, an artist I enjoyed greatly in college, courtesy of Wikipedia. I was unaware of what he had been doing until he came back into the news after 9-11.

Yusuf Islam (born Steven Demetre Georgiou on 21 July 1948 in London), who was known as Cat Stevens from 1966 to 1978, is an English musician, singer-songwriter, educator, philanthropist and prominent convert to Islam.

Under the name Cat Stevens he has sold over 60 million albums around the world since the late 1960s. His albums Tea for the Tillerman and Teaser and the Firecat were both certified by the RIAA as having achieved Triple Platinum status in the United States (three million sales each); his album Catch Bull at Four sold half a million copies in the first two weeks of release and was Billboard's number-one LP for three consecutive weeks. His songwriting has also earned him two ASCAP songwriting awards (for "The First Cut Is the Deepest," which has been a hit single for four different artists.)

When Stevens nearly drowned in an accident in Malibu in 1975, he reports having pleaded with God to save him. Stevens described the event in a VH1 interview some years later: "I suddenly held myself and I said, 'Oh God! If you save me, I'll work for you.'" The near-death experience intensified his long-held quest for spiritual truth. He had looked into Buddhism "Zen and I Ching, numerology, tarot cards and astrology", but when his brother David gave him a copy of the Qur'an, Stevens began to find peace with himself and began his transition to Islam.

He formally converted to the Islamic faith in 1977 and took the name Yusuf Islam in 1978, saying that he "always loved the name Joseph" and was particularly drawn to the story of Joseph in the Qur'an. (Yusuf is the Arabic version of the name Joseph.)

Following his conversion, Yusuf Islam abandoned his career as a pop star. Song and the use of musical instruments is an area of debate in Muslim jurisprudence, considered Harām by some, and is the primary reason he gave for retreating from the pop spotlight. At one point he wrote to the record companies asking that his music no longer be distributed, but his request was denied.

He decided to use the continuing wealth he earns from his music career on philanthropic and educational causes in the Muslim community of London and elsewhere. In 1981 he founded the Islamia Primary School in Salisbury Road in the north London area of Kilburn; after that he founded several Islamic secondary schools, and devoted his energy to providing an Islamic education to children and to charitable causes. He founded, and is chairman of, the Small Kindness charity, which initially assisted famine victims in Africa and now supports thousands of orphans and families in the Balkans, Indonesia, and Iraq. He also was chairman of the charity Muslim Aid from 1985 to 1993.

Yusuf Islam immediately and vehemently spoke out against the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, saying:

"I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist attacks committed against innocent people of the United States yesterday. While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it must be stated that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity. We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the victims of this sorrowful moment."
He appeared on videotape on a VH-1 pre-show for the October 2001 Concert for New York City, condemning the attacks and singing his song Peace Train for the first time in public in more than twenty years--an a cappella version. He also donated half of his box-set royalties to the September 11 Fund for victims' families, and the other half to orphans in underdeveloped countries.

On 21 September 2004 Yusuf Islam was traveling on a United Airlines flight from London to Washington, en route to a meeting with singer Dolly Parton who had recorded his "Peace Train" several years earlier and was planning to include another Cat Stevens song on an upcoming album. While the plane was in flight, the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System flagged his name as being on a no-fly list. Customs agents alerted the Transportation Security Administration, which then diverted his flight to Bangor, Maine, where he was detained by the FBI.

The following day, Yusuf Islam was deported back to the United Kingdom. The United States Transportation Security Administration claimed there were "concerns of ties he may have to potential terrorist-related activities." The United States Department of Homeland Security specifically alleged that Yusuf Islam had provided funding to the Palestinian Islamic militant group Hamas. However, Islam was admitted without incident into the United States in December 2006 for several radio concert performances and interviews to promote his new record.

Yusuf Islam's 2004 deportation provoked a small international controversy and led the British Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Jack Straw to complain personally to US Secretary of State Colin Powell at the United Nations. Powell responded by stating that the watch list was under review, and added, "I think we have that obligation to review these matters to see if we are right."

After the U.S. government deported Yusuf Islam, The Sun and The Sunday Times British newspapers in October 2004 stated that the U.S. was correct in its action. Yusuf Islam sued for libel and received a substantial out-of-court "agreed settlement" and apologies from the newspapers. Both newspapers acknowledged that Yusuf Islam has never supported terrorism and that, to the contrary, he had recently been given a Man for Peace award from the private Nobel Peace Prize Laureates Committee.

Yusuf Islam responded that he was " ...delighted by the settlement [which] helps vindicate my character and good name.... It seems to be the easiest thing in the world these days to make scurrilous accusations against Muslims, and in my case it directly impacts on my relief work and damages my reputation as an artist. The harm done is often difficult to repair," and added that he intended to donate the financial award given to him by the court to help orphans of the tsunami in the Indian Ocean.


I can't help but appreciate the irony between the outrage expressed over the false accusations made against a group of lacrosse players (who will be justly compensated) and the perpetuation of an image built on false accusations against a man who has devoted himself to helping others, as evidenced by his record over the past few decades.

It is also reflective of a growing attitude of intolerance towards the religion of Islam and its adherents. A few years back I went to see Dick Gregory speak on campus. One thing that stood out after over 30 years was when he talked about students being the "new niggers" (A phrase that the NAACP is now trying to bury). This was in the days of anti-war (Vietnam era) protests, and long-haired college students were not too popular with Nixon's Silent Majority. Mr. Gregory spoke about the waves of immigrants (Irish, German, Polish, etc) that occupied the bottom rung of society - and that we were now the bottom of the rung. It appears that Muslims have taken over the position of the despised - they are the "new niggers". Outrage over students on a campus in a heavily-Arab community in Detroit being provided with foot baths, possibly at school expense - the horror!

With this general suspicion of anyone wearing a head scarf and a visceral dislike for anyone with an Arabic-sounding name, what hope do we have to show the Muslim community that we recognize that Islam is not the problem - that it is a group of fanatics that have twisted its holy teachings to justify their barbaric actions and petty objections to things like holding hands? Where is that outreach to show the vast, vast majority of the Muslim world that we respect their religion, their identity and their ideals? Instead we disparage them and make them feel separate from the rest of us.

Until we make that effort to reach out to the Muslim community and try to better understand their culture, religion and values, we have little hope of persuading its members that they are welcome in our society. To do otherwise feeds the festering resentment felt by many Muslims around the globe, which leads to tacit approval of action taken against those that wish harm on adherents to Islam. Check your attitude.
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Postby Zeuslax on Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:28 am

I hear ya laxfan. A lot of prominent and moderate Muslims are now saying that the Muslim extremists can not win with their current strategy (in fact their whole movement could blow up in their face) so they are going to attempt to create a divide between the West and Muslims. If they can ensure that any time someone in the West is worried when they see a young Muslim man carrying a book bag on a subway they would be winning the hearts and minds by subconsciously changing the way we fundamentally think. They can easily turn to the Middle Eastern masses and say see, we are not just like them, we can not live amongst them, they are out to get us, and we are fundamentally different.
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Postby Sonny on Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:37 am

it's hard to take any person a face value when they openly call for murder:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KnWHDFsjo[/youtube]

The former Cat Stevens on UK TV Discussing Salmon Rushdie. When asked if he'd go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie he said, "I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing." When asked what he'd do if Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help he said, "I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is." When asked if Rushdie should die for his writings, he said "yes.".
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Postby laxfan25 on Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:55 am

Sonny wrote:it's hard to take any person a face value when they openly call for murder:


In the context in which it is presented it is not murder but capital punishment. Do you support capital punishment for any crime? If not, then any execution carried out by the state should be considered murder.

The difference here is that the "crime" is blasphemy, and it seems to be a bit of a harsh punishment for writing things that religious leaders feel are deserving of death, although Mr. Islam seems comfortable with it. This is why separation of church and state is such a cherished concept here in the US, and why many people decry the influence of religious views on American society. Stay out of our bedrooms and doctor's offices and mind your own business.

I have the same reaction to the news that the head of China's FDA was executed for taking bribes that lead to the death of people - not appropriate. (But perhaps it can be adopted in Washington - the deterrent effect may actually work there).
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Postby Sonny on Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:10 am

laxfan25 wrote:Until we make that effort to reach out to the Muslim community and try to better understand their culture, religion and values, we have little hope of persuading its members that they are welcome in our society. To do otherwise feeds the festering resentment felt by many Muslims around the globe, which leads to tacit approval of action taken against those that wish harm on adherents to Islam.


Why is it my job to better understand their culture when they immigrate to the US (or any other Western country for that matter) en mass? Vast swatches of Muslims are immigrating to the West and refusing to acclimate into (free) Western society demanding government handouts (cradle to grave education, medical care, housing, food, etc.). Many Muslims want Sharia Law (seperate legal system in Western societies) that do not align with our current system.

laxfan25 wrote:Check your attitude.


excuse me? If I'm a guest in someone else's house, I don't complain about the accommodations or the food.
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Re: Cat Stevens

Postby Beta on Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:59 am

laxfan25 wrote:Until we make that effort to reach out to the Muslim community and try to better understand their culture, religion and values, we have little hope of persuading its members that they are welcome in our society. To do otherwise feeds the festering resentment felt by many Muslims around the globe, which leads to tacit approval of action taken against those that wish harm on adherents to Islam. Check your attitude.


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Postby StrykerFSU on Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:26 am

Laxfan, obviously people will have different feelings about Mr. Islam based on what they believe about his alleged involvement with funding Hamas or what he said about Mr. Rushdie. In the first case, one must be especially careful in this age about where one's money goes but it would seem that he was falsely accused and as someone once said, "What department do I see to get my reputation back?" (paraphrasing). But in the case of the latter, I think Mr. Islam proved himself to be a poor representative of "The Religion of Peace". Whether he was calling for murder or capital punishment is a moot point to me because it is the exact same logic used by terrorists to condone abhorrent behavior from the stoning of women (and men http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2119), the bombing of innocents, the murder of Jews, etc. etc. etc. No separation of church and state exists for the terrorist without a nation. Is it a little incongruous to sing about peace and advocate killing someone at the same time?

I agree that it is shameful that there are American Muslims who are being forced to bear the weight of the actions committed by those who allegedly share their faith. Unfortunately, it is a fact that has been true throughout the history of war, and not just in this country, that those of the same ethnicity, religion, or nationality as a nation's enemies will undoubtedly suffer. This British juror would not have been news had she not been Muslim...but that does not make her behavior any less illegal. I already gave my opinion on the Mich. foot bath issue but again, it's probably only news because it involves Islam but that doesn't make it any less wrong that tax dollars are being used to build facilities for member of a certain faith.

Perhaps the members of the mainstream American Muslim community have not been vocal enough in their condemnation of the activities of Islamic terrorists. Where is the outrage in this country over the random bombings committed against our citizens and others around the world? Muslim civic leader should be on every news show and in every newspaper continually decrying terrorist activity. Their silence may be interpreted as tacit approval.

Why do certain news organizations (Reuters) and the new British PM refrain from mentioning that a terrorist act was committed by a Muslim? I believe that while American policies may be keeping the terrorists off our soil for the time being (over 2100 days and counting since 9-11) the true cure to the problem lies in the international Muslim community standing up and declaring that they will no longer tolerate insanity being carried out in the name of Islam. The former Cat Stevens starts doing that and I will think about giving him a little respect.
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Postby Danny Hogan on Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:02 pm

Laxfan, did you know about the Rushdie quotes from Cat Stevens when you made your original post?
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Postby sohotrightnow on Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:13 pm

Perhaps the members of the mainstream American Muslim community have not been vocal enough in their condemnation of the activities of Islamic terrorists. Where is the outrage in this country over the random bombings committed against our citizens and others around the world?


I believe that while American policies may be keeping the terrorists off our soil for the time being (over 2100 days and counting since 9-11) the true cure to the problem lies in the international Muslim community standing up and declaring that they will no longer tolerate insanity being carried out in the name of Islam.


First, what random bombings are being committed against our citizens?

Second, I find it rather naive to believe that American policies are keeping terrorists off of U.S. soil. Do you honestly believe they operate based on our actions? It was 8 years between the first WTC boming and 9/11, so should that be considered amazing policy?

Third, in case you didn't know, according to a new report, Al Qaeda is now as strong as they were in 2001. Instead of fighting this f'ing war in Iraq, they should have focused on breaking up their terrorist cells in other countries, such as our "ally" Pakistan (please note my sarcasm). Now that it is such a crapstorm in Iraq, they can operate freely within the country. It's all part of our sound strategy to "win" I am sure.
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Postby Tim Whitehead on Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:17 pm

Sonny wrote:excuse me? If I'm a guest in someone else's house, I don't complain about the accommodations or the food.


What if you're someone who lives in the house and has the same rights as others living in the house? Do you have the right to complain, or do you just have to abide by the master's (i.e. white christians) rules?
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Postby dubbs11 on Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:48 pm

Sonny wrote:
laxfan25 wrote:Until we make that effort to reach out to the Muslim community and try to better understand their culture, religion and values, we have little hope of persuading its members that they are welcome in our society. To do otherwise feeds the festering resentment felt by many Muslims around the globe, which leads to tacit approval of action taken against those that wish harm on adherents to Islam.


Why is it my job to better understand their culture when they immigrate to the US (or any other Western country for that matter) en mass? Vast swatches of Muslims are immigrating to the West and refusing to acclimate into (free) Western society demanding government handouts (cradle to grave education, medical care, housing, food, etc.). Many Muslims want Sharia Law (separate legal system in Western societies) that do not align with our current system.

laxfan25 wrote:Check your attitude.


excuse me? If I'm a guest in someone else's house, I don't complain about the accommodations or the food.


As much as I hate to admit it, I side somewhat with Sonny on this one.

Tim Whitehead wrote:
Sonny wrote:excuse me? If I'm a guest in someone else's house, I don't complain about the accommodations or the food.


What if you're someone who lives in the house and has the same rights as others living in the house? Do you have the right to complain, or do you just have to abide by the master's (i.e. white christians) rules?


I don't feel he is advocating that they need to conform to what you call "white christian" rules. Numerous cultures have immigrated to america but still kept parts of their culture intact. For instance, many muslim women still wear the hijab (I hope I spelled that right) in the U.S. and out of choice. They can freely practice their religion in Mosques (sp?). The difference is that past immigrant groups conformed to our legal system. Whereas, the muslim community Sonny is referring to wishes to have Sharia law. Why should we acquiesce
their request? I don't believe so, millions of past immigrants have found our system suitable to their needs. Should we merely comply with all future immigrant groups requests to change?
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Re: Cat Stevens

Postby cecilc on Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:41 pm

laxfan25 wrote:Until we make that effort to reach out to the Muslim community and try to better understand their culture, religion and values, we have little hope of persuading its members that they are welcome in our society. To do otherwise feeds the festering resentment felt by many Muslims around the globe, which leads to tacit approval of action taken against those that wish harm on adherents to Islam. Check your attitude.


Have you actually lived in an Islamic state ? And I don't mean "visited" or "toured" ..... I mean "lived": as in being dependent on the economy for food, housing, transportation, etc. ?

I had the great privilege of living in an Islamic nation in the Middle East for almost 3 years - and this was a nation that had good ties with the West even while the Islamic fundamentalists were making inroads into positions of influence in the government. And while that 3 years doesn't make me any "expert" on the religion, culture, or values of Islam I did see it and hear it and experience it every day ....

Islam is a rigid, repressive, intolerant religion; it promotes a restrictive, intolerant culture; and the values of that culture/religion (and you cannot separate the two in Islam) are downright demeaning to certain members of its citizenry - specifically, women and children. Women in Islam are NOT 2nd class citizens .... their lot would have to improve for them to be considered as high as 2nd class ... (quick story to that point: My wife and I were invited to the household of a very good Islamic friend of ours for supper one evening. His wife prepared this sumptuous, huge spread of a meal. When we sat down to eat - our host; my wife; and myself ate in the dining room together. His wife and children ate in another room out of our sight. We couldn't even talk with them.)

You want to understand this better ? Go live in an Islamic state for a couple of years and see how it works - listen to the news broadcasts (which are censored); read the newspapers (which are censored); and certainly feel free to exercise your right to free speech and be openly critical of the government and/or Islam ..... (yea, ... that'll make you lots of new friends!)

Somebody earlier made the point that Muslim clerical leaders, government officials, and every sane Muslim needs to speak up and be openly outraged at these "other" Muslims using Islam to promote terrorism and death .... They don't speak out because they are terrified of doing so .... they are terrified of speaking out against an Islamic brother.

..... Man, I'm tellin' you - I could rant and rant and rant about your post for days .... but if you want to respect an oppressive, demeaning, intolerant, restrictive set of religious values that actually controls an entire culture .... then I can only guess that Fidel Castro is right up there on your list of heroes ....

I'll check my attitude when you get a clue .....
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Postby Beta on Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:27 pm

Cecil's post just clarified things for those of you who choose to live on lollipop lane.
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Postby sohotrightnow on Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:48 pm

Cecil's post just clarified things for those of you who choose to live on lollipop lane.


Cecil is but one man, no? His experiences may differ from others who have lived in Middle East countries.
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Postby LaxRef on Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:03 pm

A few things:

First, I find it to be a problem that so many people now choose to be prejudiced against all Muslims, not just the extremists that are trying to kill us and de-stabilize our country. But the problem is bigger than that: how many people are prejudiced against anyone who looks like they could be of Middle-Eastern descent? How many Sikhs and Hindus have suffered abuse because they happen to look to someone like a Muslim?

First, Cecil's posts about Islamic states actually reinforces LF25's point: the religion isn't necessarily the problem, it's when the government forces people to follow a religion. I'm sure these countries run by fundamentalist Islamic governments are just awful. In fact, while I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be quite as bad, I think a country ruled by fundamentalist Christians would be scary, too.

One of the most even-handed attempts to address this issue was in the "Isaac and Ismael" episode of The West Wing (see http://westwing.bewarne.com/third/isaac.html)

"...there's nothing wrong with a religion whose laws say a man's got to wear a beard or cover his head or wear a collar. It's when violation of these laws become a crime against the state and not your parents that we're talking about lack of choice." He goes on to say that "The Taliban isn't the recognized government of Afghanistan. The Taliban took over the recognized government of Afghanistan. . . . When you think of Afghanistan, think of Poland. When you think of the Taliban, think of the Nazis. When you think of the people of Afghanistan, think of Jews in concentration camps."
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' I'm thanking God for not making me like them.'"
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