Don't get pulled into the Ethanol hype. Newest reason? Beer

by **OAKS** on Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:02 pm

"A Shortage of Hops Threatens Christmas"

http://economist.com/world/na/displayst ... d=10337782

**Sponsor**

by **GrizLens** on Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:07 pm

Dammit! Now the Environmentalist Wacko's have gone too far. Curse you Al Gore!

by **whitcd** on Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:13 pm

We have plenty of ethanol to go around in Minnesota!

by **OAKS** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:20 am

GrizLens wrote:Dammit! Now the Environmentalist Wacko's have gone too far. Curse you Al Gore!

Actually ethanol proponents seem mostly to be Big Corn. Corn's everywhere. The most subsidized crop gives you high fructose corn syrup, maltodextrin, sorbitol, etc. Your steak? Probably corn-fed. Chicken? check. Is your food processed? Probably in there. Kind of scary actually.

by **Ryan Hanavan** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:36 am

GrizLens wrote:Dammit! Now the Environmentalist Wacko's have gone too far. Curse you Al Gore!

Never fear Will, there is more to biofuel than corn based ethanol and all the other ethanol producers. Hops is for beer and you're not supposed to drive while drinking so why waste it on ethanol?

Apples - 2, 5-dimethylfuran (DMF) has a much greater energy potential than the ethanol based fuels.

New Belgium brewery in CO has another interesting spin on the bio-fuel push:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/02/15 ... biodiesel/

by **Zeuslax** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:59 am

Actually ethanol proponents seem mostly to be Big Corn.

Yup, and states like WI have found out the hard way by buying into the hype. They transitioned monies from very solid programs that were just starting to do some very good work. Programs and intiatives that have immediate and long last impacts are seeing money evaporate to go into ethanol.

by **GrizLens** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:53 am

Yes, the hype over corn/ethanol has sparked a dangerous domino effect with many ag producers switching to corn for the subsidies (forcing up the prices of many other crops). Many are now SOLEY growing corn, giving up the tried and true method of crop rotation (which is in turn depleting topsoil). Plus the energy returns are less than ideal, yada yada yada, where are my corn holders?

From what I hear, there is a pretty interesting emerging technology in producing biofuel from algae. It's a monster energy producer that regenerates in non-potable water in no time. We just did a story about a "Top Secret" (ooooh) facility in Hamilton, Montana that is doing the research. I'll link the story when it publishes later tomorrow.

You know what else is cool? Methane digestion!!! A local dairy farm with about 350 head just installed two large methane digestion tanks that turn cow waste into power. He will have enough power to have it pay for itself in TWO YEARS (thanks to some grants - first one in the state), plus will have excess (energy, not poop) to sell back to the grid. And the remaining effluent is odorless and will be used to fertilize hay fields. Talk about green. The best part? His move to this system was completely financially based (aka - not an "eco-terrorist"). Blah blah blah...

Off to the ski hill. [/code]

by **GrizLens** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:57 am

Ryan, remind me to buy you a frosty mug of "biofuel" next time I'm in Moscow!

by **Campbell** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:51 am

Ryan Hanavan wrote:New Belgium brewery in CO has another interesting spin on the bio-fuel push:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/02/15 ... biodiesel/

That is pretty interesting. If those numbers are correct you could satisfy the gas needs of 10-20 people per acre for an entire year. I am a big proponent of bio diesel since the raw material is renewable and can also be derived from waste products. Add to that diesel engines are more fuel efficient than gasoline engines and the only emission is nitrogen. It seems like the push for ethanol has been more for adding to gas rather than pure ethanol machines. I wonder if it is viable from a supply perspective to have cars nationwide running on pure ethanol?

I remember when I was in highschool a professor from Baylor was a big proponent of ethanol and even flew a plane solely powered on ethanol from Waco to Argentina and Waco to Spain to prove his point.

by **jessexy** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:07 pm

Havae you guys been watching "Cane" on Tuesday nights, CBS????

by **OAKS** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:03 pm

I still think unless you can find a way to create hydrogen cheaply, electric cars are gonna be the way to go.

Granted you always hear, "they're on the verge of coming up with amazing strides in batteries / biofuel / hydrogen, etc" there is actually some truth to the batteries part.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 103105.htm

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/11/tosh ... e-10-year/

Batteries that last 10x longer? mmm, 50 hours of work on my laptop without a recharge.

But more importantly, this puppy will get 2000 miles per charge.
http://www.teslamotors.com
drooooool.

by **Zeuslax** on Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:05 pm

Yes, the hype over corn/ethanol has sparked a dangerous domino effect with many ag producers switching to corn for the subsidies (forcing up the prices of many other crops). Many are now SOLEY growing corn, giving up the tried and true method of crop rotation (which is in turn depleting topsoil). Plus the energy returns are less than ideal, yada yada yada, where are my corn holders?

The issue with crop increases in other areas really isn't an issue. The direct problem is with the rapidly increasing corn prices. The impact on the American food supply is huge. Unfortunately, much of the American food supply is corn based. One of the things that we export on a large scale is corn, and we are seeing issues in the international markets as well. This is on top of the genetic modified corn problems. Then there's the non-food items containing corn like beauty care products. As a side note, if food prices continue to rise it could produce a net positive result of forcing Americans to eat better.

From what I hear, there is a pretty interesting emerging technology in producing biofuel from algae. It's a monster energy producer that regenerates in non-potable water in no time. We just did a story about a "Top Secret" (ooooh) facility in Hamilton, Montana that is doing the research. I'll link the story when it publishes later tomorrow.

This technology has actually been around for a fairly long time. NREL had it's program slashed in the mid-nineties due to declining (or really low prices as we call them now a days) crude prices. Rising crude prices have put this back on the spectrum as it has with other areas that have laid dormant. For example, Canada's tar sands that we've been hearing a lot about over the past decade. Genomics and biotechnology advances are coinciding as well. Algae is a natural oil-producer. They are tweaking the genes to increase oil output.

There's also some really good work being done with hydrogen and algae.

Methane digestion has been around for a long time as well. It is cool!! Landfills are another place where you will see methane sequestering. Something that is interesting to me is that an alga thrives in high CO2 environments.