N. Colorado's final consolation game is kaput

The 2013 tournament returns to Greenville, SC this May.

Postby wapiti on Wed May 23, 2007 6:25 pm

So what happens if Irvine wins Tuesday, wins Wednesday, and is scheduled to compete in the semi's on Friday. That is a possibility - that is why you play the games..... Do they still leave to take the exams that you indicate that they need to take, leaving on Wednesday? If they do, did they ever intend to meet the obligations? Or do they stay then to compete in the semi-finals?

I don't think you can have it both ways. If you attend the tournement, you know what the schedule is long before you go ( as noted above ), and you tacitly agree to commit to it. If you can't make the full committment, in my opinion, you don't go......Give somebody else the chance.
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Postby NT19 on Wed May 23, 2007 6:31 pm

I would like to clarify something for you destroyer10. In a previous post you stated that the UNC guys were upset with the unsportsmanlike behavior of the LSA guys.

I was apart of this game and did not see anything unsportsmanlike on both sides. In fact the game went well with both teams playing a very relaxed style of play. The only unsportsmanlike behavior that I believe was exhibited on these forums which was later edited and corrected by the person who said it.

This is a very unfortunate situation for both UNC and UCI. Everyone has their priorities and UCI exhibited theirs.
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Postby destroyer10 on Wed May 23, 2007 6:45 pm

wapiti wrote:So what happens if Irvine wins Tuesday, wins Wednesday, and is scheduled to compete in the semi's on Friday. That is a possibility - that is why you play the games..... Do they still leave to take the exams that you indicate that they need to take, leaving on Wednesday? If they do, did they ever intend to meet the obligations? Or do they stay then to compete in the semi-finals?

Fortunately for them it never came to that. I agree that teams, if they are going to go to the tournament, ought to play all their games. However, what happens in a situation like this, when a team has earned the right to be there and wants to go, but receives little support from their school? It hardly seems fair that a team should have to make an all-or-none decision.

untlax42 wrote:I was apart of this game and did not see anything unsportsmanlike on both sides. In fact the game went well with both teams playing a very relaxed style of play. The only unsportsmanlike behavior that I believe was exhibited on these forums which was later edited and corrected by the person who said it.

Allow me to apologize. This was the only unsportsmanlike behavior I was referring to as I was not witness to any other.

untlax42 wrote:This is a very unfortunate situation for both UNC and UCI. Everyone has their priorities and UCI exhibited theirs.

They sure did. They showed that they are dedicated to finishing their season without compromising their education.
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Postby CATLAX MAN on Wed May 23, 2007 6:50 pm

destroyer10 wrote:
What is so hard to understand? They are being criticized because they made a commitment when they joined the league and accepted the bid to the tournament to fulfill their end of the bargain. They chose the self-serving, selfish route and bailed on their commitments. Just try and do that in the business world (bail on your commitments) and see how fast you are fired/out of business. It's a case of living up to your word.

I agree that it is extremely selfish of them to take their exams. They shoulda bit the bullet, forfeited thousands of dollars, to stay and play a meaningless game. They have some nerve!


So are you saying that none of the other 27 teams at Dallas had to deal with this issue and it was unique only to Irvine? C'mon, it's just a massive rationalization on your part. Every one of these schools had to deal with tests, professors, classes, and what have you and somehow made it work without reneging on their obligation to the rest of the teams in the tournament. What about all those universities that would've given their right arm to be in the tournament and did not get the chance because Irvine got the slot? Think they would've up and packed their bags, taken their marbles and said they didn't want to play anymore? No chance. Bottom line is that they knew what they were getting into when they accepted the bid to the tournament. Not living up to their responsibilities as a team is inexcusable.

destroyer10 wrote:However, what happens in a situation like this, when a team has earned the right to be there and wants to go, but receives little support from their school?


For about the quadrillionth time now.....NO TEAM IN THE MCLA RECEIVES ANY SIGNIFICANT SUPPORT FROM THEIR UNIVERSITY. UC Irvine is not the only team that deals with this issue either. It's not an excuse.

destroyer10 wrote:They showed that they are dedicated to finishing their season without compromising their education.


....no matter what promises or committments that they have to break and no matter who or what they affect with their self-serving decision. Sorry, but you didn't complete the sentence that you began to write.
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Postby wapiti on Wed May 23, 2007 7:13 pm

How does the MCLA tournement committee plan and put on a quality tournement ( and they do a fantastic job !) if they can't be sure teams will keep their committments when they say they will attend. We're talking planning, organizing, LOTS of work, financial outlays for fields, officials, trainers, etc. Teams also should have some assurances of a quality experience.

The whole thing degenerates if you can't make certain assumptions in order to make plans. IMO, that's why it is so important to keep the comittments. There is a larger picture at stake, organizationally....
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Postby destroyer10 on Wed May 23, 2007 7:57 pm

catlax man wrote:So are you saying that none of the other 27 teams at Dallas had to deal with this issue and it was unique only to Irvine? C'mon, it's just a massive rationalization on your part. Every one of these schools had to deal with tests, professors, classes, and what have you and somehow made it work without reneging on their obligation to the rest of the teams in the tournament. What about all those universities that would've given their right arm to be in the tournament and did not get the chance because Irvine got the slot? Think they would've up and packed their bags, taken their marbles and said they didn't want to play anymore? No chance. Bottom line is that they knew what they were getting into when they accepted the bid to the tournament. Not living up to their responsibilities as a team is inexcusable.

I'm not saying anything about other programs. I don't know how they operate.
You'd rather have them playing a CONSOLATION GAME instead of being in the classroom? Kids ditching class to play a pointless, strictly-for-fun game? If that's true then I think you take this a little too seriously.

We're not talking about a team that said they were going to show up and then never did.

We're not even talking about a team that went home because they are sour they lost their first game. If this were the case they wouldn't have played a second.

We are talking about a team which received little support from their school in the worst way. Players whose professors, for whatever reason, were unwilling to compromise to make this the experience it should have been, for them as well as everyone else. Maybe its just a matter of luck. One year the teachers are willing, the next year they aren't. I don't know, but you apparently do.

catlax man wrote:What about all those universities that would've given their right arm to be in the tournament and did not get the chance because Irvine got the slot? Think they would've up and packed their bags, taken their marbles and said they didn't want to play anymore? No chance.

You're kidding right? If they wanted to be in the tournament they should have played better during the regular season.
Again, it has never been a question of wanting to play. I think their appearance in Frisco speaks volumes. The question is: To what extent do you expect these kids to go for a game? Are you really that shocked that students attending a UC school when faced with the decision between playing a club sport and gambling with their future chose the latter? I'm not. Would I have done the same? I don't know. Obviously no justification one can give will forgive their absence from their final consolation game. Say what you want about the decision itself, I think their level of commitment is unquestionable.
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Postby destroyer10 on Wed May 23, 2007 8:04 pm

wapiti wrote:How does the MCLA tournement committee plan and put on a quality tournement ( and they do a fantastic job !) if they can't be sure teams will keep their committments when they say they will attend. We're talking planning, organizing, LOTS of work, financial outlays for fields, officials, trainers, etc. Teams also should have some assurances of a quality experience.

The whole thing degenerates if you can't make certain assumptions in order to make plans. IMO, that's why it is so important to keep the comittments. There is a larger picture at stake, organizationally....


Sure I think profs should make exceptions for student-athletes. Until the league can convince universities to acknowledge MCLA lacrosse as a legitimate varsity sport, there will always be issues. The system can't be perfect until all programs are seen as a legitimate reason to miss school. Unfortunately, I believe this is the truth.

I never had UC-I's problem. I was extremely fortunate to be able to attend a school that was accommodating to my needs as a student-athlete. But just because it didn't happen to me or any of the other 27 teams at the tourney this year doesn't mean it's not really an issue somewhere.
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Postby UofMLaxGoalie11 on Wed May 23, 2007 8:14 pm

Why are we letting this one post wonder sit here and revisit the same one-sided points over and over? Clearly they aren't going to go "oh wow, i sure was wrong." I suggest you save your energy for more fruitful debates.
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Postby wapiti on Wed May 23, 2007 8:35 pm

Good Call........
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Postby destroyer10 on Wed May 23, 2007 11:16 pm

UofMLaxGoalie11 wrote:Clearly they aren't going to go "oh wow, i sure was wrong."


I was just telling myself the same thing...
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Postby Kyle Berggren on Wed May 23, 2007 11:22 pm

Has anyone else wondered how much it cost to change their plane tickets?

Rarely would an airline have 20 open seats with 24 hour notice, and I'd guess a couple hundred a seat for the change.
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Postby More Cowbell on Wed May 23, 2007 11:37 pm

after our last consolation game about 20 of our guys moved their flights to the next day...i think it was $100 per ticket, and the guys paid out of their own pocket
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Postby OldRamAlum83 on Wed May 23, 2007 11:58 pm

untlax42 wrote:I would like to clarify something for you destroyer10. In a previous post you stated that the UNC guys were upset with the unsportsmanlike behavior of the LSA guys.

I was apart of this game and did not see anything unsportsmanlike on both sides. In fact the game went well with both teams playing a very relaxed style of play. The only unsportsmanlike behavior that I believe was exhibited on these forums which was later edited and corrected by the person who said it.

This is a very unfortunate situation for both UNC and UCI. Everyone has their priorities and UCI exhibited theirs.



Quote:
Embarrassing yes...frustrating yes...but the #6 team in the nation (b division) just got worked by a bunch of LSA guys who haven't touched their sticks in 6 weeks. That IS embarrassing! Really it is. Downgrade the B tourney until the B division figures out that nationals is a privilege, not a right because you won your 'b' division league. I mean REALLY. owned.


How could the players from UNC NOT be offended by a statement like the one above. I couldn't find where the SMU player who said this retracted it but the damage was already done. It was great of the LSA to step up and play but this statement is what budged open this Pandora's Box. I doubt the UNC players would've said anything negative about anyone but UCI if this statement wasn't thrown in their faces.
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Postby CATLAX MAN on Thu May 24, 2007 12:29 am

destroyer10 wrote: The question is: To what extent do you expect these kids to go for a game? Are you really that shocked that students attending a UC school when faced with the decision between playing a club sport and gambling with their future chose the latter?


How is UC Irvine's situation any different than, say, UCSB who has been at the tournament for the last umpteen years. They face the same scheduling issues as Irvine and you don't see them leaving early. Same thing goes for UCSD...they met their obligations the last 2 years, even though they lost in an early round. UC Berkeley made it work the years that they made the tournament.

You are trying to characterize a team welching on their duty to meet the obligations that they signed up for as something that was noble. Hate to break it to you, but noble is the last thing that it was.
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Postby NT19 on Thu May 24, 2007 12:31 am

OldRamAlum83 wrote:
untlax42 wrote:I would like to clarify something for you destroyer10. In a previous post you stated that the UNC guys were upset with the unsportsmanlike behavior of the LSA guys.

I was apart of this game and did not see anything unsportsmanlike on both sides. In fact the game went well with both teams playing a very relaxed style of play. The only unsportsmanlike behavior that I believe was exhibited on these forums which was later edited and corrected by the person who said it.

This is a very unfortunate situation for both UNC and UCI. Everyone has their priorities and UCI exhibited theirs.



Quote:
Embarrassing yes...frustrating yes...but the #6 team in the nation (b division) just got worked by a bunch of LSA guys who haven't touched their sticks in 6 weeks. That IS embarrassing! Really it is. Downgrade the B tourney until the B division figures out that nationals is a privilege, not a right because you won your 'b' division league. I mean REALLY. owned.


How could the players from UNC NOT be offended by a statement like the one above. I couldn't find where the SMU player who said this retracted it but the damage was already done. It was great of the LSA to step up and play but this statement is what budged open this Pandora's Box. I doubt the UNC players would've said anything negative about anyone but UCI if this statement wasn't thrown in their faces.



Actually if you go back and look at the thread the original post was edited and his statement retracted.
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