who's up for the Div. B at large bids?

[dubbs11]

sorry to flood the forum, i'm just really curious to see what is gonna happen today. i just have one more thing to say. I think the St. john's win over USD 2+ months ago should not matter as much anymore. Not to take anything away from the amazing feat that it must have took to beat those kids but it was the begining of the season when teams are feeling it out. USD is now on top their of their game while the johnnies seem to be slipping off a bit.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, including ballaholic, to take away a win from a team is ridiculous. I feel, as I am sure many of you do that the parity we have this year in the B division is a great step forward for our league. I think that the games mentioned by Ballaholic go to show that on any given day, any team can show up, play a great game, and come away with the victory, and this is what is going to make Nationals this year so exciting. I am not one to toot my own horn, but we have played one of the tougher schedules this year, including 4 games against the current top 5, and all of those games have been competitive and fun to be a part of. The laxpower computer rankings show this. While I in no way think that this ranking should be the current top 25 for our league, or play a huge factor in the polling decision making process. I do feel that a team should be rewarded for their entire body of work during a season.

This being said, good luck to everyone in Plano in two weeks, the games should be extremely competitive and entertaining to watch. I just hope we are able to represent the UMLL and our school in what is surely going to be an awesome event.

[Jolly Roger]

sorry to flood the forum, i'm just really curious to see what is gonna happen today. i just have one more thing to say. I think the St. john's win over USD 2+ months ago should not matter as much anymore. Not to take anything away from the amazing feat that it must have took to beat those kids but it was the begining of the season when teams are feeling it out. USD is now on top their of their game while the johnnies seem to be slipping off a bit.

..and you're certain that St John's (and, for that matter, St Thomas) were in the middle of their seasons in February, had all their kinks worked out, yadda, yaddda, yadda...

[Kyle Berggren]

In reality, 2 of our top 5 teams have lost (one against #5), and we're trying to make a case that those two teams should be 2 & 3. . . Why?

We have a team that finished 2nd nationally last season, that hasn't lost to a B team this year, and won their conference.... We also have a team that beat our #3 team by 5, and we don't want to reward them?

The body of work argument is great, but doesn't hold a lot of water when at the top of that bucket are losses when team around you are winning.

[Kyle Berggren]

sorry to flood the forum, i'm just really curious to see what is gonna happen today. i just have one more thing to say. I think the St. john's win over USD 2+ months ago should not matter as much anymore. Not to take anything away from the amazing feat that it must have took to beat those kids but it was the begining of the season when teams are feeling it out. USD is now on top their of their game while the johnnies seem to be slipping off a bit.

..and you're certain that St John's (and, for that matter, St Thomas) were in the middle of their seasons in February, had all their kinks worked out, yadda, yaddda, yadda...

To be fair, I'm pretty sure he was getting at how far SD has come since then, beating UCSD & Claremont (a team SJU played very closely) by 3 then by 8 this past weekend. The drop off would probably be the loss to a team below they beat earlier in the season, St. Thomas.

[BB]

It holds a lot of water when it's a big bucket(lots of good comp) and doesn't have a hole in it like playing a weak schedule. Splitting the season series vs. St. Thomas is a pretty realistic result for 2 close teams.

[Kyle Berggren]

It holds a lot of water when it's a big bucket(lots of good comp) and doesn't have a hole in it like playing a weak schedule. Splitting the season series vs. St. Thomas is a pretty realistic result for 2 close teams.

Is the big bucket 3 top 25 teams (1 twice), including 2 games since mid February... I know they're very good, and appear to be much improved, but in two games against St. Thomas, they're -4 goals.... Maybe it's a matchup, maybe its the rivalry, I don't know, but that's not a bigger bucket than St. Thomas' 5 top 25 teams, 5 goal game against UMD (it was 7 for SJU). I'm not saying that St. Thomas is the the best team on the planet, or that SJU going out and scheduling what was regarded as the best two B teams in the country early in the season wasn't bold and challenging, but what's more impressive: Beating SD now? or in February? or is it equal?

[lil lady lax fan]

In reality, 2 of our top 5 teams have lost (one against #5), and we're trying to make a case that those two teams should be 2 & 3. . . Why?

We have a team that finished 2nd nationally last season, that hasn't lost to a B team this year, and won their conference.... We also have a team that beat our #3 team by 5, and we don't want to reward them?

The body of work argument is great, but doesn't hold a lot of water when at the top of that bucket are losses when team around you are winning.

In the case of Claremont, their only losses this season were to the #1 team. Are you saying that they should be drastically lower in the rankings simply because they were defeated in their conference championship game? I disagree completely on that one. Others may be winning around them, but that doesn't mean they should be ranked higher than them because of it. I only put UVSC above them in my rankings because they had the gumption to take on three very high-ranking A teams. Even though they lost all three by wide margins they were willing to go the distance. Claremont did the same by taking on NDNU. The two teams are, basically, on a par with each other.

[Reilly]

Right or wrong, I would have trouble putting any at-large team in the top 4. With only 12 teams in the B tourney, I would want to reward conference champions with a first round bye. Essentially, I dropped Claremont and St. John's from consideration in the top four automatically.

I am curious of others share my view.

I think that would be the best way to do it. Thats the same thing the selection committee for March Madness does it, which should be a good model to follow.

That is not how the selection committee for hoops does it...UCONN got an at large bid as a #1 seed and lost in the quarters of their conference tourney. The top 4 should not be dictated by the conference champions, other than the fact that wins and loses, in the conference tournements, should bump teams up or drop them. Just because youwin your conference championship does not mean you are a top 4 team.
PS Kyle- Thanks for the support...but SJU lost to DULUTH (Bulldogs) by 7. We at St Thomas lost to the U of MINNESOTA (Gophers) by 5. Two different teams. Just to clarify.

[Ballaholic]

Right or wrong, I would have trouble putting any at-large team in the top 4. With only 12 teams in the B tourney, I would want to reward conference champions with a first round bye. Essentially, I dropped Claremont and St. John's from consideration in the top four automatically.

I am curious of others share my view.

I think that would be the best way to do it. Thats the same thing the selection committee for March Madness does it, which should be a good model to follow.

That is not how the selection committee for hoops does it...UCONN got an at large bid as a #1 seed and lost in the quarters of their conference tourney. The top 4 should not be dictated by the conference champions, other than the fact that wins and loses, in the conference tournements, should bump teams up or drop them. Just because youwin your conference championship does not mean you are a top 4 team.

Still, They award conference champions with higher seeds.

[dubbs11]

Right or wrong, I would have trouble putting any at-large team in the top 4. With only 12 teams in the B tourney, I would want to reward conference champions with a first round bye. Essentially, I dropped Claremont and St. John's from consideration in the top four automatically.

I am curious of others share my view.

I think that would be the best way to do it. Thats the same thing the selection committee for March Madness does it, which should be a good model to follow.

That is not how the selection committee for hoops does it...UCONN got an at large bid as a #1 seed and lost in the quarters of their conference tourney. The top 4 should not be dictated by the conference champions, other than the fact that wins and loses, in the conference tournements, should bump teams up or drop them. Just because you win your conference championship does not mean you are a top 4 team.

Still, They award conference champions with higher seeds.

How do you figure ballaholic? You seem to have somewhat misunderstood Reilly's argument, as well as the way most of the March Madness selection process is done. Not that our selection process really resembles that of a 65 team field in any way.

Regarding Mr. Berggren's argument, I was under the impression that a win against another team is still counted as a win. Regardless of how much time has passed since that win. I seem to be mistaken. Should be an interesting couple of hours.

[BB]

Dubbs, Kyle has a point. Dismiss early season games because there is no way a team from california has been on a field, and started playing together as well as a team from Minnesota.... In February...

Oh yeah, and the other part, don't you know that only west coast teams get better during a season. I am not even a SJU fan, I just don't get your arguments.

They also played.
USD, St. Thomas 1/1, and 1 goal loss to Claremont not bad for a division B schedule.

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

All of this debate about Harding and UNC. . .It's great to see that BOTH of them are in the field of 12.

I don't know what happened to Salem State, but I must say it's a little disappointing that a team good enough to win that conference and lock in an AQ won't be making the trip to Plano.

As the USL MDIA Board tries to decide whether or not to add 4 teams to the B division field, this decline of their AQ by Salem State hurts the entire B division, in my opinion.

But I am very happen that a very good Harding team won't get slighted and has a chance to prove they belong in Plano.

[Johnnielax13]

It holds a lot of water when it's a big bucket(lots of good comp) and doesn't have a hole in it like playing a weak schedule. Splitting the season series vs. St. Thomas is a pretty realistic result for 2 close teams.

Is the big bucket 3 top 25 teams (1 twice), including 2 games since mid February... I know they're very good, and appear to be much improved, but in two games against St. Thomas, they're -4 goals.... Maybe it's a matchup, maybe its the rivalry, I don't know, but that's not a bigger bucket than St. Thomas' 5 top 25 teams, 5 goal game against UMD (it was 7 for SJU). I'm not saying that St. Thomas is the the best team on the planet, or that SJU going out and scheduling what was regarded as the best two B teams in the country early in the season wasn't bold and challenging, but what's more impressive: Beating SD now? or in February? or is it equal?

First:
I think playing the #1, the #4, and the #3 team (twice) is just as impressive (regardless of when past mid-Feb the games occured) as playing the #11, #18, #21, #24, and #6 team (twice)

Second:
I don't think the teams out West understand what the UMLL teams have to go through for practice. To say that when SJU beat USD that it shouldn't matter because it was February doesn't make sense. USD didn't fly 5 hours in a plane to get to the game. USD wasn't forced to practice from 11:30pm until 1:30am three times a week because of sub-zero temperatures. USD wasn't forced to practice on an indoor tennis facility for a month and a half. USD had just as much time as SJU to get ready for the game. They played great, they were classy, and this is in no way a rag on them, or a complaint on SJU's facilities (we do that enough to our own athletic department). I just don't understand how the timing of the game should have any effect on how it should be weighted. If ANYTHING, SJU's defeat of USD should have been celebrated because it was so early in the season!!! We didn't get to practice outside until April 12th.

And while it may seem to you, 'holic (that "the johnnies seem to be slipping off a bit") you might just be taking away from the fact that UST played out of thier minds. They showed that they are as much of an elite team as any in the country (high praise from a Johnnie that has been brought up to hate Tommies).

This season has shown that no matter what time of the year, the UMLL has offered some of the strongest lacrosse teams in the country. We are proud to be sending 2 of the top seeded B Teams, and an amazing A team (UMD) as well.

If Ballaholic doesn't want to take away from our "amazing" defeat of USD, then why bring it up? Anyone who was there that weekend saw that SJU was capable of playing a competitive game of lacrosse with any team in the country. There wasn't anything "amazing" about the game. SJU won the game, end of story. There wasn't a last second goal to steal the game, we weren't a Cinderella #24 knocking off the #1. We were ranked #6 (exactly where we are now, ironically). Sure, there is no doubt in my mind that they are a better team now then they were then, but the same logic would follow that SJU has improved as well. I think that USD is the undisputed #1 team in the B division, and that when they lose, if they lose, it will be considered an upset. (I just don't want this forum defending thier loss because; it was so late in the season, and they must have been tired, "so it should not matter as much").

[Dan Warren]

Why was Salem State pulled off the site? I thought they were the #12 seed taking on Montana, but they have vanished...anyone know what happend?

[Dr. Jason Stockton]

I don't know the details but it appears they denied their AQ. . .my guess is finances, but that is purely a guess. . .it was not the MDIA that removed them, they removed themselves from the field, allowing Harding to join the party.