CSU v. UCSB

[Bluevelvet]

Impartial, oh please. Everyone has their favorite teams. I like UCSB because they are from Cali and are my high school teams colors. I like CSU because one of my best friends goes there.

Your best friend plays for CSU and you don't think that creates a potential conflict of intertest?
After the comments that you made about how the SELC and the CCLA are both better than the WCLL, I would be afraid to be a WCLL team on the bubble if you were voting.

[LaxC21]

the lax - Like I said, if I had to choose between CSU and UCSB right now...I would choose UCSB. It is early, but if a team can control the ball (unlike teams this weekend) to keep it away from CSU then they have a good chance of beating them. There were plenty of missed opportunities by the Texas teams this weekend.

[the lax]

Yes I agree. Right now UCSB is the better team, the more complete team.

[the lax]

Impartial, oh please. Everyone has their favorite teams. I like UCSB because they are from Cali and are my high school teams colors. I like CSU because one of my best friends goes there.

Your best friend plays for CSU and you don't think that creates a potential conflict of intertest?
After the comments that you made about how the SELC and the CCLA are both better than the WCLL, I would be afraid to be a WCLL team on the bubble if you were voting.

Bluey,

I made a case for the RMLC being better than the WCLL not the SELC and CCLA better than the WCLL. I think it is clear that the RMLC is better than the WCLL because they have the 2nd and 3rd ranked teams in the country while WCLL has the 1st and defending champs. And as I have said earlier in this exact thread, I like both UCSB and CSU. Does that mean I am going to be partial against a New Hampshire or Oakland or a Chapman? No.

Anyway back to the original thread, do we all agree that the final will be a rematch?

[CATLAX MAN]

You make these statements like they are fact, when in fact they are just opinions. You say that the RMLC is better than the WCLL because they have the #2 & #3 rated teams and the WCLL only has the #1 rated team. You conveniently leave out the fact that the WCLL has the #4 & #5 rated teams, so that is 3 of the Top 5 while the RMLC has 2 of the Top 5. I'm not saying one league is better than the other, I'm just trying to show you that you seem to make these statements without giving them a lot of thought.

Again, I'd be interested in hearing your answer to my previous question. "As a player for a varsity team, is it safe to say that you probably haven't had the chance to see a lot of the Top 25 of the MDIA teams in person? I would assume that your practice & game schedule probably wouldn't allow that."

[the lax]

Well in my mind, it is fact. But overall, it is opinion and I respect other people's opinions, why can't respect mine?

Concerning the fact that Arizona and Sonoma State are 4 and 5, consider the final four scores and regular season scores of CSU and UCSB and BYU against that competition. Posters have often said that teams below the top 15, top 10 are not as good talented. Well it is clear teams in the top 3 are much better than teams ranked just places below them. For example, CSU 15 - BYU 10 in the semis, UCSB 15 - Sonoma 5 in the semis.

Unfortunately I have not been able to see many games in person because a) I am not in the proper geographic location b) as you said am limited by my teams practice schedule. I'd love to be able to go to Blaine but I won't be able to attend because of practice for the NCAA tournament, hopefully. Other than that, I'm looking to transfer to a USLIA team and then I will have all the primary resources I need to post on this message board which I love being apart of.

[Sonny]

I don't think anyone is attacking you the lax.

Glad to see that you are considering a transfer to a MDIA school. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However it seems to me that you do seem awful opinioniated about our level of the game for someone that hasn't seen too much MDIA ball.

[the lax]

It is true I haven't seen alot of games in person. However, I am a huge supporter of the league and only want it to grow which is why I spend alot of time on this message board reading posts and articles.
I apologize for feeling like I was cornered about the subject.

[Bluevelvet]

the lax-
Just for the record here are quotes from 2 of your earlier posts. In one you have the WCLL behind the SELC. In the other you have the CCLA ahead of or equal to the WCLL.
These are opinions that are not shared by many.

Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: Strongest Conference Reply with quote
It is a huge debate in college football and basketball. What are everyone's thoughts for USLIA lax?

my choices
1. RMLC
2. SELC
3. WCLL
4. Texas
_________________

Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay Cat man, take away the AQs and who makes the tournament. What conference has the most national championships?

Debate over
RMLC #1 conference in the country

Now who is #2 maybe WCLL, maybe CCLA

[CATLAX MAN]

Well it is clear teams in the top 3 are much better than teams ranked just places below them.

This is where many people disagree with you and the line between fact & opinion becomes delineated. There is no doubt that CSU & UCSB are right now and were last year the 2 best teams. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with that statement and perhaps, that could be thought of as fact. Where a lot of people disagree is that BYU is really not at these 2 teams level right now, nor were they last year. Many people would argue that BYU, Sonoma & Arizona are very similar teams and may be a nudge ahead of the 3 or 4 teams below them, but not at the level that #1 & #2 are right now and were last year.

[the lax]

In retrospect, when considering what happened to BYU at Vegas, I will agree that they aren't at the same level as CSU and UCSB.

[DG]

Catlax is right about BYU, especially last year's team.

What happened to BYU at Vegas that makes you think they aren't in CSU's league? They lost 13-12 after CSU led 6-0 in the first 8 1/2 minutes. Farquar (I think it was him) scored the game winner with like 1 1/2 minutes to go or something like that.

Sure BYU lost to Arizona the next day. AZ went on to lose 6-4 to CSU. I would think that the AZ supporters would be pointing to that and saying "hey, we have something going on here too."

IMO, not in the same league would equal something more than a 1 or 2 goal loss. So what I'm saying goes for both BYU and AZ.

$0.02 deposited.

DG

[Bluevelvet]

... Anyway I see CSU slipping up and getting upset somewhere down the line-maybe CU...UCSB, I could really see them almost running the table, maybe just a loss to CSU at HDC. These two are just too close right now.... but hey-that's why you play.

I'm not too familiar with the CSU schedule but UCSB's schedule is very tough. As a matter of fact, as opposed to "running the table," Santa Barbara has to be the underdog to #10 ranked D3 Whittier on Saturday @ Whittier.
I think UCSB can win the game but they have to be underdogs to a top 10 D3 varsity team on the road.
The Gaucho defense which was really tight last year is even better this year. They are big, very fast and aggressive. They are smart and they slide well.
I pick the Gauchos to upset Whittier at Whittier but this will be one of the 2 toughest opponents of the year.

[laxdad03]

Where a lot of people disagree is that BYU is really not at these 2 teams level right now, nor were they last year.

Catlax is right about BYU, especially last year's team.

I'm not quite sure what everyone is saying here... I think there are significant numbers who would argue (and reading the many recent posts on this board talking about the big THREE, i.e. UCSB, CSU, BYU, would seem to bear this out) that at least last year BYU really WAS at the top level -- in potential. This year it really is too early to tell for sure yet, particularly since BYU has only a handful of returning players (as is their custom), and from what I hear here, UCSB and CSU both have a very solid returning core; but then again, what DG says about Vegas is true, there really was not a large disparity in scores and/or performance in games between CSU, BYU, and AZ, each one could have gone both ways, we'll just have to see how the year plays out. But let's get back for a moment to last year, and Bluevelvet's comments about this year UCSB being an underdog to Whittier (who, by all indications I've seen on various boards, may not be nearly up to where they (Whittier) were last year), and remembering that last year's BYU beat last year's Whittier (on the road). (So go get 'em, Gauchos, for the MDIA -- and Whittier, best of everything in your D3 season, we're pulling for you to rep Cali.)

The major problem with BYU last year (and perhaps much more perennially than that, at least in the last few years since they last won it all in 2000) seemed to be that they had a hard time consistently playing up to their potential, and particularly (but not solely) had difficulties on defense. They lost their season opener to UCSB on the road in a close game that could have gone either way (aided by a late, hugely momentum-killing own-goal), and had a very tough and disappointing Colorado trip, in which (at least I believe, and I think, so do others) that they could/should have been able to come out better in those three games (at least the last two, which were see-saw), despite some tough conditions, injuries, etc. -- BUT THEY DIDN'T. I think they really hit stride again at the Lou, decisively showing where they should have been at other times in the year, particularly against CU, where this time there really was never any doubt -- until they ran smack into the "CSU mystique" and again, seemed WELL below their potential (even otter pops couldn't turn it around!). At times they were right in it, but at other times, they seemed incredibly flat, listless, and made a lot of mistakes -- I remember Alex (er, I mean Onpoint) had a great article summarizing that game, don't know if it's still around somewhere, but I think it was right on the money. Bottom line, maybe that's really the difference that is being discussed here, whether BYU is "in the league of" UCSB and CSU or not -- those two teams don't seem to have anywhere near so many of the lapses at crucial times, or let themselves be intimidated by others; rather THEY seem to have the intimidation factor on their side (perhaps for reasons such as have been discussed in other threads). The final game last year really put a great finishing touch to showcasing the solid, consistent talent of those two teams, and their ability to put it all together when it matters.

In any case, I think BYU knows what they have to do to truly get back to where they belong; I, for one, would really like to see them do it, for BYU and for the game as a whole. I know other teams don't always do everything the way they could/should, either; that (striving for growth) is one of the things that makes sports so worthwhile, but this one seems particularly poignant, to me at least, so I hope you'll indulge me every once in a while. Sorry for all the words, I know I can get long winded and jump in with both feet sometimes, but it's all out of love...for ALL the great teams and players, and everyone who plays and reveres this great sport, and the good things that it builds. Looking forward to a LOT more great years watching...

[CATLAX MAN]

Bottom line, maybe that's really the difference that is being discussed here, whether BYU is "in the league of" UCSB and CSU or not -- those two teams don't seem to have anywhere near so many of the lapses at crucial times, or let themselves be intimidated by others

This is exactly what is meant by the statements re BYU, SSU, & AZ not being at the level of UCSB & CSU last year. In a roundabout way, you arrive at the same conclusion, by first saying that BYU is at the upper tier except for. . . . . It's the except fors that are separating CSU & UCSB from the rest of the pack. In BYU's case last year, there was a significant defensive deficiency that ultimately could not be overcome to get over the hump. It really doesn't have anything to do with mystique or intimidation. Last year, CSU & UCSB had no real obvious weaknesses to exploit. The early results for this year seem to indicate the same, but there is still a lot of lacrosse to be played this season and a lot can still happen, but until it does, it would be hard to make a case for any team right now being at the level of those two teams.